CSY Sailboats: Then and Now

Index CSY 44 , CSY 37, CSY 33 -- right side of this page.

2012-01-20T10:27:00.000-05:00

... right side of this page for........ CSY Index

... top left of page (Inside the Black Bar on top)and choose the light blue word...Follow ...to be alerted automatically, when we update our posts.

OR.........
... bottom of page ....right side, for OLDER POSTS with page after page for years of info.

Enjoy!

CSY 44 Pilothouse (Ketch)

2012-01-20T00:19:00.000-05:00

The rare Pilothouse version of the CSY 44 contained everything the company could add to a cruising boat that seemed to be desirable. Some things change, yet some do not. The Pilothouse version is emulated today by many other manufactures and their models have been found for years in nautical magazines.
Photo 1: Was taken off the cover of the 1980 Chart Pack 1980. It shows the Pilothouse charging up to NYC for the Boat Show in the NY Coliseum with a CSY cutter in the backround.

The Company's objectives were clear, as stated in their manual.

The first CSY Pilothouse CSY was built on the "FLY". Owner of record of hull #1 was, Martin Dean, CFO of the company and also supplier of much of the heavy stainless steel components on the CSY during those years(like the Anchor Platform). He and his wife cruised only locally on the West Coast of Florida, so he wanted a shoal draft version @ 4' 11" (Deep Draft is 6' 6"). To make the N.Y. boat show on time, a team of craftsmen were along for the ride, working on the offshore passage up the East Coast, to finish the interior.
Yup! IT was finished along the way from Tampa to NYC for the 1978 Boat Show!

Martin Dean later sold the boat in a degraded condition to Bob Jefferies in 1988. But Bob was sharp enough to get Frank Hamlin, early N.A. for CSY on the Pilothouse project, to survey it for him and help him get it home. You see, there were inches of oysters on the bottom-etc..
All went well and the boat, first named Mad Dream for (MD-Martin Dean), was renamed "Whatever", Bob's quick, 'smiling' shot at any bs. was "Whatever..........." :)

Bob Jefferies at the helm motorsailing alongside us in 7 kts. of wind +/-. (1993)

From what I can gather, the Design of the Pilothouses was not a simple matter at CSY. The designing of it was contentious to some degree in the factory. I have NO facts to offer. I do Know, that Peter Schmitt seems to have been the top gun at CSY drawing board, but, resident Naval Architect Frank Hamlin was also listed and seemed to be strongly linked to the Pilothouse project.

The advertisements for all the CSY fleet were frequent but it was clear that the company considered the Pilothouse Ketch as the Queen of their fleet.

There were hull numbers for 22 of these rare vessels, but it seems only 15 or so were actually built.

For a bit more.... click on link just under this line.
A bit more on Pilothouse CSYs...Will combine these links when I get back to the US

"JAZZ", a CSY 37' class act!

2012-01-14T15:48:00.000-05:00

Peter and Jan Hibbard, have sent photos of their 37' CSY. The boat does not look 30 years old, does it! I've had lot's of querries for 37 photos and information and am glad that such fine quality material came in. Now others have something truly sharp to look at.

JAZZ leaving Titusville Florida for Bahamas "Abacos" in May of 2008.

Anchored in Green Turtle, Abacos May 2008. Trail boards refinished with Red Brightside and inlay with Gold Leaf enamel that is actually cement monument paint. All exterior bright work taken down to bare wood with heat gun and sander. Cleaned and bleached. 3 coats Natural Teak Cetol followed up with 3 coats of gloss Cetol. Hull cleaned with Awlgrip cleaner and followed up with Awlgrip polish.

Port interior - New foam cushions, navy marine vinyl piped in white. Sumbrella throw pillows. All bulkheads cleaned and then painted with white gloss Brightside. All interior woodwork above sole refinished with water based Varathane.

Saloon Forward from Companionway - braided rugs, various decor items like mirror, pictures added with Weems and Plath flower vase. Bulkheads white gloss Brightside and galley counter Formica prepared and painted with gloss Navy Brightside.

Captains Cabin Port Side Forward - Trimmed in blue and white decor, bulkheads white gloss Brightside and all trim water base Varathane.

Head Forward - Sole fiberglass sole coved in white Dri-Deck. Counter tiled and new faucet fixtures added

Galley Port Side Looking Aft - All counters and top of fridge refinished with Navy Brightside and all trim with water based Varathane.

Cockpit Looking Aft - Fiberglass floor covered with Dri-Deck. C Cushions (closed cell foam) custom made for seating. Throw pillows red and navy striped Sumbrella, Cockpit table refinished and striped with Navy Brightside with gloss white Brightside background. All exterior bright work in cockpit and around entire boat taken down to bare wood and refinished with 3 coats Natural Teak Ce/09tol and then 3 coats Gloss Cetol.

Originally Posted on 3/22/09

CSY Owners of 44', 37' and 33' boats built from 76-83

2012-01-06T18:00:00.000-05:00

Twice per year, I move this Post forward. If not, as you can expect, things get lost in history..

So now 6 months have passed and you get an update! How Cool! :)

.........If you own a CSY built from, you are offered a place to post pictures and write ups about your boat, "right here."

It's a great way for all of us to get to know each other and spend some time, similar in a way to being in a harbor and get to meet up for an evening or two. Here tho, we can reread and view, what we can not remember the morning after :)
Send a photo of your boat, yourselves or a couple of your "Happy Projects" and let's see what we have.

Nearly 3 years now and all is running well/Quality!

My hopes are to place ANY CSY BOATS CURRENTLY OUT THERE WITH OWNERS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET and interested.... a place to show their vessel and it's condition, problems, improvements or ? This is available now, right here. So, what are you waiting for?

Ready to show off your vessel?
Here is your opportunity. Just Email your initial write-up and photo attachments to: s.v.memoryrose@gmail.com

With just a few emails, you can have your boat up on the web, showing off your proudest projects.

Stay well and keep smiling,
ron sheridan

Steering Sheaves in Cable Systems aboard Yachts

2011-09-10T20:33:00.000-05:00

(Written a few years ago.)
This spring, I was concerned about a Coast Guard alert for a CSY 37 that a few weeks earlier had been anchored near me. The vessel was reported as missing on on a crossing to the Bahamas. All ended well luckily but I feel compelled to spread the word again as to why there was a problem; a problem not rare to 25 year old boats.

Obviously no one wants to loose steering, no one; but reasonable maintenance should prescribe disassembly of our simple cable systems to check components. We know of failures and near failures and the fix is straight forward.

The steering failure that caused the CSY 37 to go missing for awhile and luckily nothing worse, was a rusted through steel bracket under the binnacle where sheaves attach. It crumbled, collapsed! The problem was beyond surface rust. A basic check of this bracket should be high on the maintenance list of any owner. These brackets came in bronze as well and should be sound if they are.

At left, photos (taken of my gear!)show a near failure of the bronze sheave pins. Edson now makes the replacement pins of stainless steel/a harder material!
Plenty of time has been spent on projects in my lazarette but I did not catch the wear on the sheave pins until I took the cable system apart to INSPECT.. Disassembly of the cables to work in the lazarette allowed me to feel the sheaves, now without tension on them, and the obvious 'wobble' scared me. The TOP photo shows a tilting of the sheave. Visually, that should alert anyone that there is a problem. The MIDDLE photo shows the pin was ALMOS; the evidence of ONE sheave pulling one way and another pulling against it....but almost worn completely through. This would have been disaster. The BOTTOM photo shows 2 Fair pins, 1 Bad pin and 1 absolutely Dangerous pin.

Replacement of the Oilite bushings in the sheave costs only a few bucks, so have a shop to that for you as well.

OK, so your not going to cruise far. How about when you are turning into your marina under power and you have to turn past a few of those nice expensive power boats. Want to loose steering then?

(originally posted 9/20/06)

33' CSY, " Rhapsody"

2011-07-11T05:00:00.000-05:00

Dag's 33, is a fine example of the 33' CSY model, shown here at anchor in No Name Harbor, Miami.

Rhapsody on the hard/deep keel option. The staysail has been modified to ditch the club foot original to the design and instead add a furling system and double sheets led to blocks on the coach roof corners.

New anchor.
Had all the exterior varnish stripped off last year and applied 17 coats of Epifanes varnish.
Also screwed on SS rub-rails on the teak from the bow back to the spring-cleats.
A new 20 KG Rocna anchor sits on the bow. Very impressed with the anchor so far.

Showing her clean seaworthy, CSY lines.

Rhapsody during hurricane Wilma. I am happy to say there was no damage to Rhapsody:
She was a bit shaken, but not stirred. At least 13 docklines are holding her in place and there is
also lines across the canal holding her off the dock. Had I known how severe the storm would be,
I would have removed the sails...

Helm mod...Mounted a chart-plotter on the pedestal 2 years ago. I had to make a bracket out of aluminum to mount the plotter, also used bimini-top hardware with rubber-bushings to clamp on to the tubing.

Here is a picture of the bracket and hardware: The plotter is a S-H C180i
hooked up to an AIS "engine" displaying ship traffic up to 29 n.m. away.

Helm 2.
The plotter is also connected to the Simrad autopilot, to the primary DSC VHF radio and also sending GPS updates every 20 minuttes to 406 EPIRB mounted just inside
the companion way.

Double Trouble: This is Rhapsody and Cinnebar sharing a dock in Fort Lauderdale. Rhapsody seems to be carrying the draft of a cruising boat.

Midship cleats nicely added.

This one is an experiment on cutting a viewing port in the "storm-shutter" kind of
plexiglass panels protecting the real house windows on the CSY 33: Had to
make several of these clear round plexi pieces as they would crack when bent.
Finally had to use glue, then SS bolts and nuts.

Also mounted an compass on the inside so as to make this a poor-mans "Pilot House"
In bad weather and with the auto-pilot remote I can steer the boat from the inside.
As can be seen, the hatches and all the external fiberglass on the boat have gotten
some fresh gel-coat sprayed on.

In this shot, note the block added to the corner of the raised saloon roof for sheeting the staysail. It's a good lead and works well for this conversion.

While Dag is quite modest, I have to say, when I viewed Rhapsody, I was immediately impressed with the thought put into each and every mod and certainly, the detail and quality of work. (sorry Dag, I had to add that! :)

In the end, actually both ends(a pun), the anchoring systems have been modified too.

For the stern anchor, Rhapsody uses a Danforth mounted on the aft rail, within immediate reach of the helmsman and can be quickly deployed. This is a real safety measure. A length of chain and the anchor rode, is stored just inside the coaming and below, in a secure locker specially set up by Dag. If and when needed, the helmsman can get a stern anchor down and maybe save the day, or if sailing solo, has everything needed to handle his boat and secure it bow and stern. Nice!!

Not to be overlooked since it fits in so well you might not notice, is the nicely installed windlass and new Rocna anchor. Both of these seem to fit as if originally designed. The simplicity, is actually just beautiful. Form and function, hand in hand and certainly well executed.

A fine solution also for the spare anchor. Easy to reach Fortress is mounted on deck in custom blocks between the two hatches. Simple yet functional.

Originally Posted 11/28/08

CSY Roatan Charter Station Mural

2011-07-05T21:43:00.000-05:00

A few years ago, I got the chance to visit the old, and now delapedated resort used for CSY charter operations. This, was a treasure I took away from the experience. The wall mural on the center building that all charterers had to see and remember. For the rest of us, we dream, plan and take our own CSY's to future adventures.

Work Bench

2011-06-23T08:00:00.000-05:00

Boats need to be worked on. We can't escape that, but where do you find a decent spot to do small tasks, the galley counter, the nav station, the saloon table? Yes, we use all of those at times, but I am retraining myself slowly to use a workbench I was able to create by modifying our old v-berth hanging locker. I was already using the hanging locker as a chain locker and only needed the bottom half for that, so it became evident that redesign of this space could add the function of workbench.

The forward bulkhead was modified for access, then surface covered with some durable 6000 series aluminum. An old Sears vice was nickle plated to protect it from rusting. Drawers were removed, shelves installed and small locker hold cans of this or that. Some lighting added as well as 12v cigarette sockets and 120v multi-outlet for tools and chargers.

Pilothouse CSY 44

2011-06-20T09:45:00.000-05:00

The ketch rigged Pilothouse version of the 44' CSY hull was a design ahead of it's time. Very traditional look overall, resembling European wooden designs of years gone past yet, like the Walk Over design already offered at CSY, the Pilothouse used all the best of the mid 70's technology, in a heavily built fiberglass modern hull. The architect, Peter Schmitt, obviously translated some of his Dutch old world heritage into the layout and design. At first glance, it was easy for one to say, "I want to charter that, or I want to own that."
One hull design platform for all CSY 44 models simplified production, yet with the eventual 4 different interior and deck mold options, the market was easily satisfied.

The Pilothouse was the 2nd of 4 final designs, the Walk Over (WO)being the 1st, the Walk Through(WT) and Bottomliner(comercial fishing version) were 3rd and 4th.

Click Photos to Enlarge.

The first Pilothouse actually had its interior finished at sea, on the way to the New York City Boat Show, in January 1978. The hull of #1 was dated Dec. 1977, and was the 4'11" shoal draft. CFO of CSY at the time was Martin Dean and he wanted it for his personal vessel after the boat show. He told me he and his wife wanted to cruise local West Florida waters, so the shoal draft was more appropriate for him. Like all 44's, there were two (2) draft options: 4'11" for shallow water access or 6'6" for sailing performance.

Cover of Maptech's 1980 East Coast Chart Pack

The Pilothouse, sailing to NY with the cutter right behind and off in the backround, actually graced the cover of the East Coast Chart Pack in 1980. The photo shows Frank Hamlin at the helm pressing on to NY.

The show was a success for CSY and the crowds at the "Coloseum" on NY's, 59th St. and Columbus Circle lined up for viewing. My boat, Pilothouse Hull #2 was sold to a doctor across the river in Perth Amboy, NJ from this show. Another, yet to be built Hull #3, had a contract written up for a pilothouse for an attorney out in Washington State. He actually called his friend Tom Foster from the show, to suggest strongly that he buy one too. Tom waited a month to see show printed material and the delay caused his hull # to go from 4, to #8! Yes, CSY's sold well at the show and the Pilothouse design was off and running! Naval architect Frank Hamlin was one of the N.A.'s at CSY and at this time. About this time, Peter Schmitt signed on full time. Frank Hamlin was then in charge of the Pilothouse project. It seems that many of the Pilothouse's built were kept private and did not enter the CSY Charter Fleet.

We move well in Light or Heavy air and surprise the common bragards out there. The PH performance can shut 'em up quickly!

CSY had not wanted to build a Walk Through model originally and spoke much to this point in early CSY brochures and literature. It opted for the Pilothouse configuration instead, to derive ultimate livaboard qualities. As Queen of the fleet, she was priced well above the Center cockpit WO version. The company was aware of the extra cost to build this model. It seems only 22 of this Pilothouse version might have been built but at this point there is still uncertainty as to what happened to 5 or 6 of the slated hull numbers in the teens. We can find numbers but not the boats themselves. Possibly a plan to put a short production run, with numbers put aside, for a charter fleet that never materialized, but that's only a guess at this point.

Even dockside, they stand out; kinda like a Muscle Car does- parked but Ready!

Why build a pilothouse version? Well, CSY's competition for the charter trade were offering walk through designs.

Click any photo to Enlarge It.

There are obvious benefits to a Walk Through in general but CSY initially saw negatives. CSY went beyond just interior access issues with the pilothouse design tried to omit the negatives they felt were limiting in the center cockpit WT design. The Pilothouse model used the same hull as their standard 44' Walk Over, but the design allowed full access in the living quarters without ever needing to cross the cockpit of the WO. If you wanted a cup of coffee or a beer, you need not go outside from the aft cockpit to get it. If you were in the saloon and wanted to check a chart, back in the aft cabin's navigation station, you need not go out in the rain/sun to do so. If you were butt ass naked, you could enjoy your home afloat in private.......No showing off to the anchorage required! ;) So, now uninterrupted interior access was available in a CSY.
-Tankage was improved with a 5 tank layout/options for 6. Total tankage was 5-600 gallons (options for more)and apparently plumbed during construction to fill the needs of the new owner's demands for fuel and water. My boat has 3 fuel tanks totaling 325 gallons and 2 water tanks totaling 250 gallons. Others PH's differ somewhat.
-Ketch Rig/with main mast moved 4' forward of the cutter configuration. This offered easy safe smaller sail areas for each sail, but the design actually increased overall Total sail area to 950 sq.ft.(early drawing show this at 937-but was corrected in later printings). The ketch rig offers the ability to sail with mizzen and head sail for an easy to work sail plan in heavier weather, but there was the additional complexity and cost of the extra mast and rigging. More info on Ketch/mizzen benefits here:

http://www.tor.cc/articles/mizzen.htm

-Main Mast height was increased from 54' and 56' on the W.O.'s to 58'9". Early tank testing and literature from CSY stressed the ability of these early configurations to keep full sail plans to 30 knots. This is unheard of on most sailboats and was not valid on the tall double spreader rigs CSY later installed on WT's and a few WO's. Added height and shortened boom of the P.H. gave a more efficient/powerful mainsail (higher aspect ratio). The ketch sail area added about 50 sq. ft. to the W.O.'s sail plan. Foredeck was clear space as now there was no club footed boom on a stays'l. A thousand pounds of additional ballast was added for compensation to the Pilothouse keel encapsulation/ note too, the double lead ingots used for ballast were moved aft and the sump was moved forward giving adequate space up there for a crew member to descend for any maintenance required for bilge pumps etc.
- The aft cockpit was the only aft cockpit offered in the 44 line up. It maintained the deep cockpit, high bulwark/backrests and 6'+ seats that CSY were given high marks for, but lost the 'patio' qualities of the W.O.'s excellent cockpit. The P.H. version, was now a serious "Sea" cockpit and underway, at anchor or dockside, was not adequate for large groups partying . Most entertaining quickly moves out of the sun or weather to the saloon area; which offers 360 degree views of paradise from within as well as plenty of ventilation. Of course, the standard CSY beer cooler was still built in beside the aft helm seat and it was a 'smiled upon' feature.
-A large Lazarette was added under the aft cockpit, that is absent in any other 44 CSY design. Plenty of storage and immediate access to the rudder, quadrants(one for each steering station), cables and sheaves. To elaborate: In my lazerette, we carry 4 dive tanks and equip for emergency dives, 25-30 assorted lines hanging along hull, an FX 85 Fortress anchor shaft, 6 life vests, Monitor wind vane steering paddle, 2 large buckets with boat cleaning gear and emergency items like extra snap shackles etc, oil and items for outboard and dingy. With all this, there is still room for a crew member or two to decend into it for inspection or work. This extra space was designed into the P.H. for below deck storage but immediately accessible from the cockpit.
-2 entrance companion ways: one from the cockpit, one from the Intermediate deck just forward of the cockpit, aft of the pilothouse. This was useful especially if crew or others did not want or need to disturb the privacy of the aft cabin/the Capt.'s Quarters.
-Full 360 degree panoramic view from Inside. A view that equals that of a trawler, but who's profile(read that windage) is less than a typical enclosed dodger on the center cockpit boats.
-Cavernous Interior in main living area: Saloon/galley open/combined area measures 9' x 15' locker to locker(port to stbd.) and bulkhead to bulkhead(forward/aft)
-Large U shaped galley: Totaling 9' of counter tops in 2 sections. Add to this, the 3 burner stove and the efficient top loading triple locker 17 cubic foot refrigeration system CSY was quickly know for. Extraordinary 15' of deep cabinetry behind the working spaces; the 3 sections of locker space plus an overhead 3' spice locker, offered more usable galley space than any other CSY design. A chef's galley.

What was lost?
1. The Workshop and Vice that later was incorporated into the Walk Through(W.T.) design *
2. Forward Showering Compartment of Cutter rigged CSY 44's
3. A 2 ton Fish Hold later available on the Bottomliner. OK, who wants that?! Keep your sense of humor...

*I modified my forward hanging locker and cabinet in the V berth area to grant me the workshop amenities and vice and others can do this too.

click here for information on that modification

The showering compartment of the cutters, is a really nice feature but apparently cruisers choose to fill it to the brim as extra storage.

Just a curious observation, but in the late 80's, seeking a P.H. for myself, I investigated about 6 of them over 3.5 years; finally opting for Hull #2, then named "Sunrise" from Perth Amboy, N.J. All of them appeared to me to be somewhat or seriously denied the attention required to keep a boat pristine and shippy. I have no clue why that occured, but without defects or damage, I bought mine and cleaned her up.

Original Interior shot from CSY

Pilothouse #8, Windhover

Obvious in the last decade are the number of sail boat manufacturers building Pilothouse or Raised Saloon configurations. The trend does not negate the desire for efficient hulls but does demonstrate the longing of many to have more interior comforts. Schmit and Van Ost had their thinking caps on and were also listening to the market. Production of a fast comfortable Pilothouse design can be compared to anything built today. At 44', The CSY Pilothouse offers a surprisingly full list of features that todays other designs, have a hard time topping.

Originally Posted 1/12/10

Barient Winch, Self Tailing, Modifications for EASY disassembly

2011-05-07T10:22:00.000-05:00

Have you ever tried to disassemble your Barient or Barlow self tailing winches? Do you see missing bolts in the Self tailor or have you broken or cross threaded them while trying to assemble the Self Tailer? Well, here is a trick that makes it SIMPLE. Yes, simple.

As the photo shows, "after" you disassemble the self tailer portion of your winch for cleaning, take out a 5/16" or 3/8" drill bit and drill a hole right where I show it. (Since there is a small lip there in the casting, to get an accurate placement of hole, it helps to measure and drilling with small sized drill first-to keep larger drill bit from 'walking'.) You should measure the radius and transfer this to the arm. Your shoulder bolt with spring and a screw driver tip will fit easily through the drilled hole when you are reassembling the Self Tailer.

With this hole added to the Tailing arm, disassembly or assembly of a this portion of the winch can be accomplished in a matter of minutes, with no damaged or broken bolts, lost springs or lost patience. Complete winch disassembly can now be moved back to the list of Favorable Projects.

originally posted 9/22/06

Solar Panels: a Cruiser's Solution?

2011-04-28T20:33:00.000-05:00

Many cruising boats, CSY's included, are now sporting a few Solar Panels. Just as many seem to have Wind Generators. Probably just as many also have diesel generators. I would bet, almost all are at least somewhat dissatisfied with their solution for energy renewal.
My decision to never again have a diesel generator aboard, as for me, it was too noisy, costly to install and was another maintenance issue. This decision has never been regretted. Even to microwave some hot chocolate meant firing up the beast. Enough! I read what I could find on the subject in the 80's and thought I understood the technology of the times. My plan was for a 2 bladed, Four Winds Wind Generator (their most powerful and rated tops by Practical Sailor) atop my mizzen mast.

Wind Generator atop Mizzen Mast................. 5 amps brought smiles
Later on adding some solar panels, when the technology was refined. A 150 amp. alternator and smart external regulator was installed first so that anytime I started the engine, maximum power was put back into the battery bank.

The Four Winds wind generator was installed in '94 and removed in '05.............

Dave McCampbell of SoggyPaws was also moored in Boot Key Harbor, near me, in '05. He had this habit ....of passing by in his inflatable and looking up at my slow moving wind generator and asking, "When are you going to solar Ron?"..Smiling, he would continue by....still looking up..... (he was gentle with his proding.)

I finally asked myself the same question after realizing that in any month, we enjoyed enough wind to satisfy my batteries 'maybe' 3 days of 30. It was sunny for the other 27. So, "Why was I or anyone, accepting the negative 9:1 ratio?" I started to research Solar on the internet and put my Wind Generator up for sale on Ebay.

Dave had 410 amp hours of older solar panels on his stern arch. My system would need about 500 I thought, as we do not wish to be frugal if power is available and considering the inefficiencies of the 'locations' I would use aboard, mostly caused by shading of the 3 panels over the aft cockpit. Mizzen mast, mizzen boom, it's furled sail, rigging and radar dome, would all cause shading of the 3 panels atop the cockpit, but usually not those over the davits.

.................................Adjustable panels on davit system

3 panels would be mounted atop a very robust set of davits originally designed to incorporate the solar array. Too much energy would be OK, but not enough ever is, so I used 'technology'. We are lucky now that it is available, useing software/algorithms to manipulate the volt/amp equations to boost output as much as 10-30%. This new technology is called MPPT (Maximum Power Point Technology)

http://www.outbackpower.com/MX60.htm
(click on photo to enlarge it)

and adjusts the VA's (watts) equation to best pump up the batteries even when conditions are cool or cloudy, as well as low angles of sunlight during the early or late hours of the day.

Outback Solar Controller-with 4 line readout-(click to enlarge) and notice the 46V input and do not miss.....the amps in.. and out.

I chose an 'Outback' Controller with the optional battery temperature sensor for fine tuning the charge. One of the features of this system is the ability to Input up to 70 amps of solar power(some overkill is highly recommended). Our panels are Shell(formerly Siemens) 85watt, 17 volt, 5 amp. Some controllers, like the Outback can take higher voltages and step them down to the configuration of your 12, 24 or 48 volt batteries. An advantage here is to set up your panels with a higher voltage Input than the batteries require. Voltage is the force that makes things happen. If your battery bank is at 12.2 volts and in early morning and your panels are at 12.3, you will not have enough force to up your battery voltage as the panels 'wake up'. Hook up your 3 panels in series, rather than parallel and now you have up to 50+volts of input driving electricity into a 12.2 volt battery bank-through the controller-and the batteries will definitely rise. (A side benefit is smaller gauge wiring for the distance needed-if you need to skimp on this.)I set up 2 arrays of 3 panels each and wired them in series to utilize the 17 volts of each panel, lined up, to deliver 50+ volts to the Controller. The result is the extra boost in performance that this new technology can give..(check on all available Controller manufacturers for your needs.) It should also be mentioned that if you have an efficient solar charging system that will offer the amps all day, that a battery system should be matched to that 'long, slow input, for a longer life. The VRLA batteries such as gell and agm's offer the no maintenance feature and deal with the short cycling very well. Dave McCampbell is doing some extra research on this and I'll update the battery info when he feels satisfied. There is no need for golf cart batteries or the heavy duty rolls style for this gentle application, as they will not be drawn down to an 80% discharge.

For 5 months after installation of only 3 panels(albeit those were adjustable to face the sun more often); those 3 panels seemed to satisfy 90% of our needs living aboard. The last 3 panels were then added atop the new bimini structure and we now have our batteries in "Float" by early afternoon. Keep in mind, that getting into "float" is normally the hardest 15% of recharging a battery bank.

No more Wind generator noise, vibration, maintenance. Silence...................[written Nov 24, 2006]

[Updated, Jun28, 2011]

However! Returning now after about 3 years in the tropics of Panama, I have a refined view of needs.
Note: If you are augmenting your power input from moving your boat often, then you can disregard this, but if you stay put often... then, consider this:
Often there is not enough sun. This is common during 'Rainy' season in the tropics, which can last for 6 months. What do you do then?? Well, wind generation sure helps many boats. It will put out something day or night. Maybe only incrementally, but it's a big advantage to have BOTH Solar AND Wind. I added another item to the list 2 years ago, one also used by Dave on Soggypaws, when he ventured past the Panama Canal and found himself in cloudy sky's on windless conditions.......and that is a small Honda generator..
I chose a Honda eu2000i for it's output, quiet performance and meager fuel consumption, using it's ECO mode.

If your going to go cruising, try to fill ALL the baskets with the tools you will need. I suggest a large battery bank of 700-1000 A.H.'s, Solar of at least 500 Watts, a Wind generator that does not disturb you and a small Honda Generator with maybe a half dozen Plastic Fuel Tanks full of strait gasoline. (We put those 5 gallon tanks 2 each, in 18 gallon Rubbermaid storage containers, on side and aft decks, tied down. The Rubbermaids kept the sun and roaming eyes off) If we needed fuel for our 2 stroke outboard, we would then add oil to the outboards tank at each fill, this way, keeping our options open for use of gasoline for both Generator or Outboard.

CSY 33

2011-03-08T17:50:00.000-05:00

Charlie and Siri of Anchorage Alaska, found a vessel that suits them, in the 33 CSY. Charlie had back round family experience on a 37 CSY that led him to his decision to purchase Cinnabar and seems as pleased as can be.

Pictures of Cinnabar, bought in Fairhope, Alabama then spending some time in St. Pete, Florida, before
being rafted up to Dag Hansen's 33 in Ft. Lauderdale are from the owners. Presently in Alaska, they are looking forward to returning to Florida and doing some more Bahamas Cruising.

Original post of 4/21/08

New owner purchased a decent light air sail.

Standard Interior is shown in the saloon shot.
Some of the 33's have a cabinet above the sink.

Nav. station to stbd.

Standard club footed stay sail, yet tanbark sails.

What a day for a daydream.

"Time is Money well spent tinkering with boats" reprinted first post of, 9/12/2006!

2011-01-24T17:23:00.001-05:00

Sometimes it is correct to be blunt/straitforward....so I will. Understand what I say, or accept you will loose or gain much. Your choice.

Today, riding up the elevator to our 2nd floor abode, after working on project #1342 +/-, I jokingly asked Dorothy, my honey, partner in life and assistant on boat projects, how many hours did she think we already had into it? The elevator opened before she answered and as we emerged back into sunlight she gave me a funny look that said, "LOT'S of time"!

My desire to add a few antiques to our interior, in particular a Victorian mirror in our aft head, instead of the CSY rectangular teak framed one that had served perfectly for 25 years, had led us into this project. Searching for the right mirror alone, took several years of poking around antique shops and thrift stores and many long drives. After removing the original mirror, old holes showed next to the new Victorian mirror, so of course this had to be remedied. An adjacent Formica panel had holes in it too from prior owners additions and deletions as well as removal of the old shower assembly, so heck, I'll Formica all of it. Might just as well redo the small 2 panels above the mirror too! Locating the 'right' color of Formica from a distributor took more time, then picking up the sheets, glue, a few extra brushes, removing trim teak, faucet, making patterns, cutting and fitting Formica to perfection, taping everything we did not want glue on and cleaning up, gluing and installing the new Formica. Count also the hours of sanding, re varnishing and reinstalling teak trim, faucet etc..

What brought on my question of 'Time', was a conversation I had 21 years ago aboard my first sailboat. A gent I had hired to help me get her commissioned was enlightening me. I knew zip about sailboats then and had been 15 years out of ownership of a power boat. So having him around for a day or 2 was comforting, usually. He made a comment though that I will never forget, apparently, and that is what precipitated the question to my gal. He told me he often has customers that want him to do this or that yet have no idea how much time is involved to accomplish the task. He has learned to estimate fairly well, but the customer rarely understood his labor estimate or at least grimaced when hearing it. He pointed up to one of my hatches and said, "For instance, if that hatch was leaking and I were to do it properly, I could possibly spend 20 hours before finished." I laughed and said OK, looking at the hatch and the conversation went on. A few years later, I would still occasionally look up at that hatch and think of what he said, and understanding his estimate better, now that I have had a few years under my belt in boat maintenance again. The old boat now belongs to another and for 15 years I have been owner and loving slave to my second; "Memory Rose" a CSY 44' Pilothouse Ketch. Now, my ability to estimate is quite good; so much so, I make sure I do not!
Why? Well because if I make my best estimate and then double it, I am usually close, but probably still on the shy side. If I knew that estimate going into each project I probably would talk myself out of it, or Dorothy would suggest that maybe I had other things to do as well. She would be right, but I seem to gravitate to boat work, so I continue to do it.

The point of this is that whether one is a prospective first time buyer or an old salt, the estimate of time necessary to properly do a job aboard is not usually considered accurately. That hatch resealing task that my hired hand suggested would have cost me 20 hours times @ whatever the labor rate would be. Then, in 1985, his rate was $25/hr. so to reseal that one hatch would have cost me $500 + some materials. Ouch! And what if a few hatches were leaking and a few port lights? Or, if the project didn't go perfectly and other things had to be done. How much would that job cost today? I recently had to get estimates for electronic work and the rate was $90/hr.. Double Ouch! Costs can run up quickly even for a job like a reseal that is totally invisible when completed and done well. You don't even get the pleasure of looking at some new item aboard, but you still have to pay for progress with your time, or your dollars for someone else's time.

So, when looking at your boat, your next boat, or another sailors vessel, take time to really look. Study what has been done. Think of the effort put forward to accomplish projects done, to truly appreciate what you are seeing. Also, digest what it might cost you to do the same thing. Doing so will help all of us better appreciate the work that has come from builders originally, or from someone along the way to repair or modify a vessel. It will surely help when trying to understand why one boat sells for $45,000. and another for $145,000. In truth, there might be $200,000 in time or dollars put into the better one, or needed to bring the lesser one up to comfortable, seaworthy condition. Asking or sales prices often do not parallel real costs or efforts. Important too, is noticing the things that are 'not' done. Adding the hours and dollars necessary to tackle that which has not yet been done, can be sobering. Doing so however, can save you from spending a fortune in time or effort, yet ending up selling your boat years later, half finished and no longer enjoyed. Properly executed work, be it maintenance, rebuilds, refinements or engineering, can bring many rewards for those with ambition, time, patience and a reasonable output of cash. Call it sweat equity, call it a hobby; the payoff is daily pleasure and pride of work well done, a safer, trusted vessel and rewards when swallowing the anchor.

In our case, the mirror job will cost us a few hundred bucks and many hours of input, the vast majority of which was fun. The money spent is gone, but the finished product will bring a smile to us for years to come. Wishing you the same outcome on your next project and I hope you understand ALL the little aspects I have brought up.

Stay well and keep smiling.

CSY 37

2010-12-25T19:05:00.000-05:00

Paul & Pam Sedwick's "Southern Light" dockside at Sunrise.

Choose 'wisely' for your intended cruising needs.. as these models offer quite different options. Figure out where you might want to sit your butt on a crapper, if you were in High Seas, not just where you want to have a drink with new friends at the next anchorage!.. Like other CSY offerings, ONE model seems to gravitate towards 'gentile' cruising and the other towards 'harder...core' cruising.. Again, chose wisely., It's your $.

Most folks know the CSY by it's most common model, the center cockpit Walk Over (WO) 44, or the later version of the center cockpit 44, the much asked for Walk Through (WT).

However, the Pilothouse 44, the 37' A and B models and the 33, were aft cockpit vessels and lesser known.

I admit my knowledge of the 37 and 33 is limited, but will update this post when more information is passed on to me.

I first sailed on a 37 in

Tampa Bay back in 1984, two years after Bill Robinson, the retired editor of Yachting Magazine and author of many books, published his "Sailing To The Caribbean: How to carry out the dream of sailing your own boat to the Caribbean". Long title huh?

Anyway, the book starts out with Bill and his wife picking up their new 37 "Brunelle" at the CSY factory in Tampa and sailing it down through the Bahamas and on.

In contrast; my very short motor sail delivery up the bay gave me adequate time to inspect this vessel up close. I was very impressed. The flush deck design was very interesting, as it gave the interior added space as well as a safe platform on which to handle sails. The Cockpit was traditional CSY in that is was deep, long, comfortable, safe and secure. The interior looked rich with loads of teak. It was an A model with owners quarter berth and head to port and V berth forward. I could envision a part of my future on a boat like this...the dream was forming.
-------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lewis's Tall Rig photo shows it at home, dockside, near the end of a total refurb. He is hoping to be cruising this winter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Only last week, while waiting for the bridge to reopen, I saw a 37 passing through. She looked great, a real little ship. My 96 year old father was in the car with me, and it must be said that the boat caught his eye for the longest time. Finally he turned back forward and said "nice boat".

The drawings at the top of this post, is the "A" model 37 CSY. There was another model, the "B", that had a large head and shower in place of the B birth, and other interior changes, but I do not have material on the "B".

-------------------------------------------------
37' Model B, "JAZZ",owned by Peter and Jan Hibbard, is shown below with a blue shear stripe and underway with main and rolled up genoa. At left is a shot of the great flush deck. I'm waiting for Peter to send interior photos of this plan B model to add to this post.

-----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard and Shirley Goward's beautiful photo of their "Enchantress" displays the 37 under full sail with original club footed staysail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "Other" Pilothouse

2010-12-06T12:23:00.001-05:00

Peter Stoeken, a manager at the CSY plant, built a special version of the CSY Pilothouse model of the CSY 44's for himself in house. Must be a great story here! Photos below were passed on to me years ago by David Kummerel of the Virgin Islands. I've heard several explanations of the 'build' but someday hope Peter will enlighten me as to how he accomplished this hybrid build within the factory...should be an interesting tale! ;)
Then with his permission I'll add his story here... but until then:

Sorry to say that due to computer failures, I no longer have the shots Dave had sent to me. There were 5-6.

These 2 photos are now, all I have. Note the external strap type chain plates Peter changed to, during a refit years ago.to replace the original internal CSY plates.

"Independence" was built with a cockpit "Forward of the Mizzen"...kind of a Center Cockpit versions, but still different than the other CSY center cockpits (WO and WT)... yet this PH plan allows an aft cabin. CSY Pilothouse Ketches were built with an AFT cockpit!)

INDEPENDENCE is a special boat (mast near center as cutters are.)

The CSY Pilothouse versions were technically true Ketches with their masts moved forward about 4 feet. The unusual Independence in this "Cutter rigged Ketch" configuration, has the benefit of a staysail that the CSY built Pilothouse Ketches did not! So, 4 sails available in a 44' LOA vessel. Certainly from what I have heard and viewed by way of photos, Independence is a very desirable/unique vessel.

The owners commented:

Pat Stoeken of s/v Independence said...

Thanks for saying such nice things about our Independence, she is 31, still daysailing out of Red Hook in St.Thomas and cruising north or south most summers. Check her out at www.independence44.us

It is always great to see a CSY in the VI. just lately we have had Sundance, a walkover here, Glen and Erin have done an incredible rebuild on her and she looks better then new!

Thanks for the great website

Pat and Pieter Stoeken ................................... http://www.independence44.us/

5/05/2010 4:53 PM

Note: The author of this blog (myself) owns CSY Pilothouse Ketch, hull #2.

(--Ketch rig/no staysail.) I added a bowsprit to gain a larger sailplan for light air sailing AND a Staysail.

Lots of work and $ to do this as an afterthought!!

CSY 33, 37A & B, 44 W.O., W.T. P.H. and B.L. as well as Cygnets and Dream 81's

2010-07-26T21:08:00.001-05:00

Welcome. Whether you are looking for information on the 33 CSY, 37 CSY or any of the models of the 44' CSY you can find your info on the right side of this page.
Enjoy. View and select from the Index or read everything.

Older Posts Option, is on the Bottom/Right side of
every page!

THE RACE

2010-06-04T09:08:00.000-05:00

I am sitting at the helm....all is ready....the wind is perfect......the

starting gun is raised....Bang!

Maybe I was not quite ready...the shrink rap probably should come off as

well as the boat should be in the water...but what is the cold weather for

in the north but to dream.

Capitan Miguel, SV Justicia

[reprint from 10/31/06]

Cygnet 44, The CSY 44 Economy Version

2010-01-11T09:29:00.000-05:00

In 1981 CSY made an attempt to build and sell more economically, by producing a Line of CSY 44's with a lesser amount of items or detain. They were finally taking a serious look at cost cutting. The Cygnet Line, was to include economic versions of the standard 44' Walk Over(WO), the new Walk Through (WT) and the rare Pilothouse CSYs.

Their advertisement stated or showed:

No Stays'l or No Mizzen.

No Trailboards.

No Boom Gallows.

No Fixed Ports in Forward Cabin (the 2 small round ports CSY's are known for)

No 2nd Color on Shear Stripe (Hulls are to be BRIGHT White)

No Stained Glass Locker fronts.

**ADDED: Wooden Headliner

Not sure if any were actually built but if so, there were probably only a few. CSY closed it's doors not long after the Cygnet concept came to print.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

2009-12-14T18:23:00.000-05:00

CSY Links, Marine Businesses worth noting.

2009-11-06T15:15:00.003-05:00

In 2000, I switched from one fabulous stainless steel fabricator to another one because of price and timeliness. I have never regretted that and alerted the CSY group and other friends of my new recommendation of stainless steel fabricator and machinist.
The name was Gulfport Industrial Repair, Gulfport, Fl. (aka Gulfport Machine) owned and operated by Rick Heim. For years, Rick produced beautiful work for us CSY owners in a timely manner and very fair prices. Now he is preparing for retirement and finishing up with his large commercial accounts, so will no longer be taking on our boat projects. We will miss him.

A few years later, my wife and I put on a 'CSY Gam' three day event for the CSY Group of boat owners, here in St. Pete Beach, Fl. We were lucky to have as a guest, Pat Petersen of Petersen Marine(and also a long ago employee of Caribbean Sailing Yachts (CSY)). Pat was a super guest and sponsor offering a $2000. door prize of a marine air conditioning system and further offered special deals to the group. He proved to be a 'good-guy' by following through with all his offerings to everyone, so I added a justly deserved link to his business: Petersen Marine
NOTE: His website is lacking but his service is not! He will ship anywhere. SEE: LINKS on right side of page.

Today, I'm adding another Marine Business to my "LINKS" (also on the right side of the page.)

The new entry is: "Custom Teak Marine Woodwork", St. Petersburg, Fl. owned by Steve Shuler. His quality, service and timeliness put him on my list. You will not be disappointed if you use his service, so check out his website. He will also ship anywhere. Like the others, either retain the link for yourselves or... remember where you found it! :)

For direct access, Click on the LINK, down a bit, on the Right Side of this page!

JTR Enterprises of Gulfport, Florida was one of the original suppliers of stainless work for the CSY plant. As fabricators the company still exists with one of the owners sons in charge. His name is Derek and from what I saw and others have said, he is doing great work. I talked to Derek about a year ago, when I found out Rick was going into retirement soon, and confirmed that Derek had many of the original drawings of stantions and other items JTR built for the CSY plant.

CSY Walk-Through 44', Amata Marie

2009-09-11T16:36:00.000-05:00

SV Amata Marie, formerly Thistledown.

Once owned by Dave and Lisa Covert and known as Thistledown, Amata Marie is now the name and Jim and Nancy Guthormsen, the proud owners for 5 years. They have tossed their dock lines in Kemah, Texas and are soon berthed in Tavernier, Florida.

Below are a few of the interesting changes to this walk through model.

On deck, the club footed staysail has been modified with a quick release stay for the hank on sail. This gives the convenience of a sloop when desired. The cutter rig is fine for many things, but the simplicity of a 2 sail rig/jib and main cannot be beat for daysailing, so this option offered by a quick release inner stay is not to be put down. Added to this, the athwartship traveler was moved back to accomodate proper alignment of the sheeting system. Not sure if this alignment would work out the same as on the Walk Over model, but it should be close. The devil is always in the details and that is what those weekends are for! (sketchpad and a beer)

At the aft end of the staysail, the clew is connected to the sheeting system's double block, by a snap shackle. This looks like another nice quick change idea for daysailing, as it allows one to get the sail and inner stay out of the way quickly for sloop simplicity.

Staysail track was moved aft and up on the coachroof.

New windlass was installed directly to the deck.

No fiberglass hatches on this boat! Looks like custom teak jobs, with 2 panel drop in screens made from teak and brass screening. Tinted Acrylic bonded to the outside of the hatch and circular or tubular seals along bottom edge rather than top of fiberglass opening.

Open access to lockers was nicely accomplished here. Also note the original white oak was painted, leaving only the trim in natural.

Big Flat Screen added. No 9" Black and White for Jim and Nancy!

Westerbeke genset mounted above engine in WT

engine room.

(originally posted 9/11/06)

Antiqua Fire

2009-05-14T12:58:00.008-05:00

Two nights ago, a friend of mine lost his Antiqua 44' to what appears to have been an electrical fire.

Remember to click on any photo to enlarge it.

Around midnight I was checking our condo for an electrical problem as I could smell the burned material, when I heard the fire engines. His boat, was docked 1/4 mile UPWIND from us.

The Antigua has been undergoing renewal/replacement of electrical wiring by a professional, hired to clear up issues of original and added wiring. Not certain of the actual details, but as of today, it looks like the boat is going to be a total loss.

It does not appear to be "the" issue, but I had written to all our friends on the CSY discussion list awhile back, that there had been an electrical fire on a Bottom Liner CSY,caused by a worn out/overheated male Hubbel connector (mounted into the deck mold of a CSY) and advised all to check out their device. I've been monitoring this connection on my boat more often since The Bottom liner fire. Two weeks ago I found a good deal on Hubbel connectors online. It's packed, ready to replace mine when we return to Panama next month.

Subtle warnings from your own subconscious mind when looking at some mass of wiring aboard your vessel or, a wake up call like these pictures and text hopefully will help to keep us from being complacent about electrical wiring, sizing, connections mounting, etc.. Like everything else aboard, wiring needs to be on the list of maintanance issues. It's a good idea to check on some regular set schedule as well as anytime you are working on or around them. Also, a no brainer is to shut off all systems not necessary...especially if any work is not completed.

My friend is OK, his attitude is good. He even said with some humor in his voice, "The adjuster asked, is there any boat out there you would consider as a replacement?" He said; "Yes, but it's in Panama".

... Then not joking with me, he said, "If you hear of any good WT 44' CSY's out there for sale, let me know".

A dad day for any and all that see this and certainly for my friend, but we can all learn something from this or at least be reminded.

Cap Rail Replacement, "GLORY" of Christiansted, CSY 37

2009-05-07T08:18:00.017-05:00

Here are some photos of the "replace the external teak" job I've started. They were taken at the November 2008 Virgin Islands Charteryacht League Boat Show at the new Yacht Haven Grande Marina in St. Thomas.

The work completed at that time was just the cap rail from the forward gate on starboard, around the stern to the forward gate on port. Since then, the companionway, eyebrows, boom gallows and hand rails have been finished. Yet to go is the cap rail from the forward gates to the bow, both sides, as well as the 2" high pieces under the cap rail itself.

Because the material expands and contracts longitudinally about 1/4" in 8' with a 40 degree temperature change...I don't seem to have much of a problem down here!!!, I did not do any fancy scarf joints. Simple butts. The bronze is 1/2" half-round from Lewis Marine in Ft. Lauderdale.

Just had the boat re-surveyed last week, and the surveyor is quite excited about the material and how it looks. The boat is valued now more than ever!

The material came from PlasTeak in Ohio. Cost $65/length there, and with trucking to Jacksonville, ocean freight to St. Croix and trucking delivery to my marina, bumped each length to $100 each. Each of the 11 pieces are lumber dimension 1"x10"x12'. Made of recycled plastic gallon water/milk jugs, treated with uv inhibitors and "teak" color added, of course. The oldest pieces are now two years installed....and never been cleaned. The only thing I do to any of it, is look!

The material works like wood, and wood tools are the deal. Band saw, table saw, sanders, drills, routers etc. I sanded the "grain" into the finished pieces just before installation with 80 grit on a belt sander, except by hand where the routing was done.

Try them at www.plasteak.com. The guy I worked with was owner, Derek Gribble. He was a good help with questions.

Years ago I'd installed teak foot pads/steps on the rub rail on either side by the after gates as the original gel coat, then the Awlgrip, was slippery under foot, certainly when wet, and really because I have big feet and they don't fit on the rub rail well! So I made new steps in the PlasTeak, using a router to cut the "non-skids."

The fold down seat in photo 15 is for the windward helmsman to sit better on the lee side, a little more butt-room to sit on the rail while steering, so as to be able to see over the house with a clearer view of what's up ahead.

Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than sitting on the lee seat where you can't see squat. Mostly I did that for the old racing days, but they are handy anytime...especially if your arms are as long as mine!

Now, for the technical aspects of working with this material:

For sealant, I used Silicone Sealant. Nothing special other than Clear, which I thought would be less offensive cosmetically. I used the big tubes with the gun, ran several "lines" so I could spread the goo evenly with a putty knife fairly quickly, both on the fiberglass and the "wood" exclusive of the overhangs, hoping to avoid air spaces and general gaps. Since this stuff "moves" with temperature changes, I wanted to perhaps make more of a gasket to disallow water seepage below into cabinettes, etc. The strength of the joint is in the mechanical screw fastenings, not the sealant/adhesive, so you use more fastening than with real wood. Silicone has very nice adhesive qualities on metal-to-fiberglass, for instance. So do adhesives like 5200. Remember I wanted clear. But since not much sticks to this stuff, "adhesive" won't matter, so the guys that put 5200 on EVERYTHING will have to rethink with this.

Derek Gribble said that when screwing down the material, over-drill the pilot hole in the PlasTeak just a bit. Enough so that when you put the screw in place, it just "falls" thru the hole. When you finish cranking down with the screwdriver, back off the fastening 1/4 turn. Yes you want the piece to be set, but yes you also want the piece to be able to "move" with the temperature changes.

He recommended pan head first, then round or oval head fastenings. On pieces 3/4" thick, you can counter bore a bit more than half the thickness of the stock, and still have enough depth to set the bungs. The caprail and smaller pieces, like the eyebrows, are not structural. They are for looks. He suggested using tapered bungs...that they sell.... but that presented a problem to me. He said just hammer the mother home, slice off with a wood chisel in the time honored way and finish off. They'll never come out. The problem I mention is that the depth of the counter bore, what's left after the fastening is set home, isn't terribly deep. I felt that with the tapered bung, it might not drive in deep enough to really squeeze in and set. And while all holes and counter bores were drilled on a drill press with depth stops for the counter bores, I was't ABOUT to start custom cutting each bung!!! There are HUNDREDS of them in this job! So I cut my own with either a half inch, or three-eighths plug cutter, depending on the application, again on the drill press. In the caprail case, 1/2" Remember this HDPE stuff doesn't hold glue well. Neither paint...nor varnish. So drilling the counter bore 1/2" also will produce a hole for a bung that will slide in nicely...and also slide out! I experimented on scrap, drilling 1/64" undersize holes and wanged the bungs home. They were snug, "reluctant" to come out. I tried another series 1/32 undersize. They didn't want to KNOW about coming out! I have a set of titanium bits in 64ths, ranging from the thickness of a hair on up to 1/2". When I drilled the bungs in scrap, I drilled down deep enough so that the ...what would later become the bottom of the bung....was rounded. That roundness allowed the bung to enter the slightly undersized hole, and be tapped, not really pounded, in.

In the eyebrow pieces....not shown in those pictures...they were not installed yet...the brows are closer to 5/8" x 3/4" or so. There really wasn't enough depth to be able to use pan or round headed fastenings. So I used counter sunk wood screws. You have to be really careful here to again back off the fastening a bit to allow movement. And the counter bore should only be 1/64 undersize, because the outward pressure of the bung in the 1/32 undersize hole is too much....the material doesn't have enough mass behind it....and cracks will develop. I have this happening in a few spots and need to re-make the pieces. I'm still learning the material. The learning curve isn't really steep, but it's there. Derek didn't mention that, but then I only told him I was replacing the caprail, the pieces being between 5 1/2 and 8" wide.

He has told me now though that 3M now makes a glue that works for HDPE. That might help setting bungs in flimsy pieces without needing to undersize the counterbore. Havn't tried that yet.

David Kummerle

Water Faucets

2009-04-28T08:20:00.004-05:00

The original water faucets on CSY's were chrome plated heavy cast brass single hole units with spring loaded self closing valves. This feature has been loved by some, but not by all, as reflected by the replacement manufactures and models used over the years.

That said, the forced water saving feature on a sailboat was and is a great idea.

The name of the faucet company is Chicago Faucet, 1-847-803-5000(tech. support
hit #2). The faucet is a Cross Handled Single Hole unit, part #700 or
701 (and can be ordered with Hot or Cold handles if someone wants to replace their unit, or just order part #
826-X for the SELF CLOSING CARTRIDGE if that's all you need. The model #701 comes
with the Self Closing Cartrige included for a few bucks more.

On the company's website, there are some improved models of this faucet, using the same single hole base, but adding features. Handles/method of getting the water to flow, and flow rate have options. Instead of turning the Cross shaped handle you can opt for a push down button style or a single lever. Flow rate is 2.2 gpm max, for a wide pressure range, so is probably reasonably low for a boats 30-45 psi systems, but the company offers a .5 gpm rate for real water savings on one of their models.

CSY@Topica.com

2009-04-17T20:16:00.010-05:00

After Ten + years, the Original CSY@Topica.com forum, is being replaced.

There has always been a Link, off on the right side of this page, called CSY Discussion List and that list contains a TON of information, but for a few years has NOT BEEN RESEARCHABLE!! The originator of that list, Mr. Dave Covert, is now working to make this information available again.

Along with his efforts, a new site is being developed by Mr. Covert and the McCampbells that will offer many new things! There should be something happening, maybe in only days.

Stay well and keep smiling,

ron

Extra Storage

2009-03-22T15:29:00.003-05:00

Many owners have found interesting ways to add valuable storage space aboard their boats. Adding cabinets, lockers, removing drawer frames and top loading settee's instead, finding empty spaces under the sole and cutting access(carefully) to create storage has been discussed often.
Gene and Brenda Brown, owners of Queen Mary, a CSY 44' Walk Through had a neat trick up their sleeves. On the saloon's forward bulkhead, they had displayed a chart. At first, that was all I noticed. They smiled and demonstrated that the chart, was only the face, of a large chart storage bin as well as a 'Drop Down' chart table.

Often today, electronics dominate the original chart table in the nav station area..a computer is a prime example. Having a drop down table just forward of this area, adds to the comfort of quick back up paper charts.

Also, just forward of the mast and between it and the bulkhead, is another wood boxed in shape that you might not notice. Well, guess what's in there? A washing machine of course. A Haier single tub version.

The Browns spend a lot of time cruising and have equipped their boat well with solar and wind systems, Specta watermaker, hard fiberglass Bimini-custom built in Cartejena Colombia and more. Nice boat, nice folks and good ideas.

Cockpit Hatch modification, of the Walk Over model

2008-11-27T08:30:00.003-05:00

From Peter Roach:

Here is what I did:

Big hatch

I then attached a piece of door gasket material to the bottom of the part I had to cut off to miss the door. This acted as a drip rail for the blunt edge. I also painted the end of the board with epoxy because the plywood was showing. Here is a picture of the hinges and spring shock.

On the small hatch cover you have to cut off the side by the bench seat so it stands up like this:

Leave a 1/4^th inch drip rail so that water does not roll under the lid.

On both of the access hatches I used a weather strip from Lowes. It keeps the noise down and does not seem to allow any water into the engine space.

Fuel Chart for the CSY 44 Walk Over

2008-11-27T08:27:00.004-05:00

Ron,

Here is the tank table that I sent out earlier. It is for the fuel tanks for a 1980 44 WO.

Just received this from Peter Roach. Thanks Peter!!

The "Silverman Collection" (CSY 44, CSY 37, CSY33 material)

2008-11-26T13:32:00.002-05:00

Steve Silverman, owner of Infinity, a CSY 44 WT, collected most of the material ever printed on CSY's. The 'collection' might one day be available to us in an easy to reference DVD.

CSY had planned to build a luxury 81' boat at a cool million/copy. The product "CORSAIR EIGHTY-ONE" never became a reality, but the advertisements were out there..... so that's how close it was!

The "PLAN" is, to FINISH putting all the material on a DVD and made available to everyone. This long term project, is not far off from completion, says Steve. Years of effort by Steve, and numerous hours of working the files by both he and I, will soon be available to you and anyone interested in these boats.

For any owner, perspective owner or broker, this is something not to be missed as there is nothing like this available for any other boat that I know of.

BOTTOM LINE 44'S

2008-05-04T18:12:00.006-05:00

updated today 05/04/08
originally posted: 10/12/06

Some of us know of the Bottom Line 44' CSY, but few know of the 'real' story behind it. I knew some, but awhile back I came across an article while researching sail rigs. For an "Interesting read", check out this link. (I also added a direct link on the right side of this page under, "Favorite Links" http://www.balance drig.com/pete.html

CLICK ON THIS COLORFUL RAT RACE /GO FISHING AD ===TO READ IT WELL....

From what I know, only 6 of the Bottom Line 44's were actually built. I saw 3 of them back in 1985, then none until a few years ago when I found 2 up in Pensacola, Florida. One was in bad shape, but the other, named "Joshua", had been upgraded and showed the input of a loving owner; there is a photo of the one in poor shape, that Ed Marill asked for and is on his site. I pursued things until I got in touch with the owner of the good one owned by Ben Wileman, and got

to view his vessel up close. He's a neat character and along the years we have continued to stay in touch.

The original idea of the vessel was to have a large fish hold centered in the boat, with a crew compartment forward and a Captains quarters aft and work center in the tall pilothouse. This commercial pilothouse provides a good visible with navigation counter, resting berth, and galley-- sliding doors either side. A shaded area was built over the fish hold; side decks are continuous, with no steps or raised section aft. Sloop rigged with roller furling for jib and main,so sailing is all about line control.

BOTTOM LINERS were all deep draft 44's. Above deck rails and most structures were aluminum heavy wall tubing/pipe.

Ben had been Joshua's captain back when she was put in service as a long liner. The owner had captains and crew running 3 boats. Ben would long line for sword fish, in the Gulf Of Mexico and the Gulf Stream, only to return when the refrigerated hold was full.

These photos were taken in Pensacola a few years ago. Ben is doing fine and is still in love with his boat.

The pilothouse of this version is particularly functional. The steering is centerline, with excellent visability for all 360 degrees. There is no doubt that Ben likes his comforts....just look at this Helm Seat! Yikes! That is the way to go!

Ventilation is fine, with windows, overhead hatches and sliding doors offering plenty of options.

The engine room is below the pilothouse and accessible from the steps leading down from the port forward corner of the pilothouse. The engine is a 110 Yanmar-one of the newest. Also in this corner is a fold down berth just to port of the steering station adding a fine solution for some rest for captain or crew.

The galley is split across both corners of the aft pilothouse. You never have to leave sight of the controls or horizon, to cook or get a drink. It's clear that this is a work center.

Steps lead down into the aft cabin directly to a starboard nav station and port head. Cabinets, lockers and sleeping v berth are just a bit further aft.

Forward of the pilothouse is an aluminum enclosure for a genset and storage of gear essential on deck.

SINGLE SPREADERS, BUT PLENTY OF 'STICK'.

Dave Waltz used to put out the internet version at www.nwcaribbean.net. He and his wife Donna, cruised Caribbean waters on a Bottomliner 44 Bella Donna pictured here.

Of the 4 I have seen up close, this is the only one that has begun the Fish Hold conversion to living space.

For some extra historical information regarding this "fishing" version, read:

http://www.balancedrig.com/pete.html

CSY folks collect!

2007-12-07T13:04:00.004-05:00

As a retired firefighter from NYC, 911 was an important number to me. When I saw this CSY license tag for sale, the double meaning made it a quick sale.

A few years ago one member of the csy@Topica.com chat site, Rosalie Beasley, had hats made with the CSY logo and individual boat names for those who wanted them.

Probably most of us have collected a bit of printed material from original owners manuals to advertisements found in sailing mags of the time of production, but a few have large collections.

CSY@Topica.com site had belt buckles as well as the original style CSY logo brass ovals made forAnother, Dave Covert the originator of the mounting on the vessels.

Copies of a decal available years back when a CSY 44 won several important races have also been available.

CSY Keel Cutting 2----an Option for 44,37 and 33 vessels?

2007-09-28T09:56:00.013-05:00

Every once in awhile the question of Deep or Shoal draft CSY sailboats comes up and certainly, many of us have strong feelings one way or another and it is surfacing again. Either way, truth should not be lost; the DEEP DRAFT of any boat, will have different characteristics than one with a SHORTER keel/called Shoal Draft. This will be true while sailing, motoring and anchored. Yes, while motoring.. or at anchor.. the Shoal keel will not stop the boat from having a higher rate of motion, or? Round bottoms move more/Stick a big keel on it, and the motion slows down.

If true sailing experiences are seriously important, yet you wish to have shoal draft in your deck of cards, there are things you can do, if you really want your boat to sail well while shoal/not constrained by draft, then; as they say, "have your cake and eat it too". You can make your own mods, or go to Mars Metals or someone else and get some advantages back of having a keel that locks onto the water passing it and keeps you on track...., like winged keels or bulbs added, etc.

Listen, If...IF this subject did not mater?...........NO COMPANY WOULD BUILD BOTH MODELS. Companys do this stuff FOR SERIOUS REASONS.

Obviously, from what I have just said, the alternative: "short/shortened or /shorter" keel will not 'sail' as well as one deeper.

Questions/ Comments?

If anyone tells you differently, they are ...not telling the truth and you should know it.

NOW!

The shallow draft boat will go into less water, and if you need or want to visit shallow water, then this should be a high priority.

I had found an article almost 10 years old, about not just shortening a CSY keel, but adding a bulb of lead back to both sides of the keels bottom edge, to re-establish ballast and add a keel tip for performance, minimizing losses of keel depth.

The link to Mars Metals site was here, to read an article first printed in Sail Magazine in 1998 that could be of interest if you are considering a shorter keel. But alas, things change. I visited this site recently and I cannot find the info.. and without asking the company, I think the company has revised it's info.

CSY "Said" it put in extra LEAD BALLAST into their hulls to make up for SHORTENED KEELS. Ok, I'd like to hear, "Where did it go?" Shouldn't we know? I have 25 years of looking and have minimal input. Can you add some data?

Bottom line. Keels are like tires.........they transfer the power you develop with your power source to the earth and keep you headed where you wish to go. Cars need tires and small tires save gas, not make you scream thu an obsicle course!

If you buy a Power Boat, hit your throttle and go wherever you want to go. If you Sail, do not overlook the advantages to a keel. That's what they were designed for!

CSY decision...Repair? Replace? or...Think out of the Box!

2007-06-19T10:15:00.002-05:00

Recently shared an anchorage in Roatan Honduras with Gary and Susan aboard the 44 WO Pacifico. Pacifico was formerly Willingly, a boat that had undergone much work after being neglected for awhile.

Well, the boat now looks like most other WO's but here and there, they thought out of the box and used Susans wonderful art capabilities to make Pacifico 'special'. I applaud her effort and skill and it really brought smiles when we saw her work.

Shown here is another way to redo your head/shower. Forget redoing everything as original, "think out of the box". It looked GREAT.

CSY's in Marathon

2007-03-07T18:07:00.000-05:00

LOONEY BIN

GLENLYON: ANTIQUA WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE MANY UPGRADES AND MODIFICATIONS-A SERIOUS VESSEL VISUALLY!

BOWSPRIT ON GLENLYON APPEARS TO BE A FACTORY
INSTALLATION, SIMILAR TO THE IRWIN ALUMINUM DESIGNS USED AT THE TIME. A HAIR SHORTER BUT QUITE SIMILAR TO WHAT I ENDED UP DESIGNING FOR MEMORY ROSE 20 YEARS LATER.

MARIJKE

CHANTICLEER

ADRIENNE MARIE

CSY- Rudders 44,37, 33; Original or Custom

2007-01-06T18:11:00.014-05:00

From the Outside:
The Generic Style of the 70's keel and rudder, shown on the left(is not a CSY but very similar in appearance), also similar to Irwin's, Pearson's and other production boats of the time; but like anything else, Design and Technology will evolve.

The design and quality of today's rudders vs. yesterday's' can help you sleep well or just steer better because the technology has entered the arena that before was sometimes only filled with artistic design. Much more is known now in the technical sense and therefore the needs and effects of the outer shape as well as the inner metal skeleton are much better understood.

CSY built a Mack Truck of a rudder. Do not loose this point. In the same years that CSY was using a 2" shaft for it's rudders, one of it's near look-alike competitors named Irwin, was using I believe 1.25" shafting! Big difference. So on shaft size alone, CSY material was massive.

The 2 inch thick Tobin bronze rudder shaft stands out above it's market peers of the day.

However, I feel the rudder's skeleton does have a weak link (in its original design, that lessens the benefit of a 2" shaft).

I offer my thoughts for anyone addressing a broken or damaged rudder or building a replacement as a preventative measure.

A rudder is a wing.

It 'flies' thru water-vertically. The external shape is certainly a 'Part' of a rudders performance -10 knots is not as critical as mach 2..... but moving along at 5-10 there are subtle differences that do make a difference.. The engineering of an item moving thru a liquid is very similar to one moving thru air.

You do your own homework.
-Read what you can and look around at NEW designs of rudders using skegs as well as those that do not...take measurements. I've done this for many years to get my 1000 hamburger degree! :)
( note please that i did it for myself and only recently have put my thoughts in print for others to think about.)

The aft swept bottom of the original CSY rudder seems to have little to do with engineering but more to do with how it looked drawn on paper. My 2 cents.

If any of you wish to comment or debate this item or add what they feel is different; you can do that below; in the request for: COMMENTS

Not to be forgotten, most of the CSY rudders have seemed to work fine over the years and I have never heard of anyone saying the CSY rudder did not handle the boat just fine.

Peter Rabbits new rudder skeleton on left. Paul had the arms of the rudder "welded", completely around the rudder shaft.

The loads imposed at the bottom of the original CSY rudder, are transferred up to the gudgeon support at the bottom of the skeg. These loads are increased by the longer CSY's horizontal length at the bottom of the rudder.

I'm including here some old sketches of measurements I took , that I felt "I" needed to consider- before replacing my original rudder. It's my "armchair" engineering...do you own thinking!

Early drawing-Highlighted for emphasis: A copy of this was passed on to show OPTIONS I thought were possible and MODIFICATIONS to the original design that I incorporated into my new rudder in 1994.
RUDDER REDUX:
CROPPED FROM PAGE 87 OF SAIL MAGAZINE, APRIL 2008. IT EMPHASIZES MODERN DESIGN BENEFITS AND ADDED HELP FROM TYING IN A PORTION OF THE FORWARD PART OF RUDDER BELOW THE GUDGEON.

***2 things to note in this new article : 1. clip the trailing section-bringing loads closer in towards the internal shafting to help carry loads, and
2. incorporate a bit of the skeg into rudder design. A fellow CSY owner, Joe Silvernail had modified his this way and said it was a Plus! Thats why I had 'considered' it in 1994. Next time!

I tried to come up with, what I thought was a modernized/more efficient design and one that might also lessen the loads on the gudgeon or at least not increase them. The loads of the bottom triangular tail(Orange-ish color) is clipped off and then this area is flipped upside down and added to the upper trailing edge of the rudder as shown above in the drawing.

The blue outline is what I ended up using as the final shape for my vessel, Memory Rose.

Photo 3 is a scan of original sketches that I took over to Scott Penfield years ago when he was trying to figure out what he was dealing with to rebuild Chanticleer's previously modified rudder.
click on any drawing to enlarge
The highlighter colors, indicate original dimensions as well as some options available when building a New Rudder.
---It should be obvious to a CSY owner, what the Original shape of the rudder looks. It's highlighted. [ rudder in Orange / skeg in Pink. ]
---Blue is what I built. The more symetrical shape does several things. It decreases the loads on the Gudgeon support on the bottom, centering the load between the gudgeon and the Rudder Bearing at the hull. It also makes steering easier. Having to work with the Skeg as part of the overall design of a 'Wing", eliminating the extended lower trailing edge, allowed me to built closer to shape suggested for an aircraft wing. The rudder is a WING-moving thru water. It should be designed to operate as such.
After reading what "I" could, and for a few years measuring boat rudders whenever I could get into a boatyard to do so, as well as talking to many builders and a few N.A.'s(naval architects) I was convinced that since rudders were going in a 'certain' direction over the last 30 years, that I would follow the mindset. I did not invent this, but I did try to understand their 'thinking'.
While going thru a 'tour' of a major local sailboat builder here in St.Pete/Clearwater(Catalina/Morgan), I questioned them on the internals of their rudders. Also, inspected an 'aftermarket' builder of rudders that used to build here in the same area, (Foss Foam, ). I called 2 major N.A.'s and felt comfortable in what I had designed for Memory Rose, my CSY 44 Pilothouse sailboat.
We built a new rudder for our CSY Memory Rose, in 1994- as a precautionary measure. Several other owners have done the same, after having visited our boat and examiniming our efforts and conclusions. They 'digested' what I did then added their own mindset to their new rudder's design. I offer an intro to their designs here as well.

CSY Original Rudder skeleton-on left as well as a CSY original photo and description of the rudder shown as the Mold....click to enlarge.

I decided to attempt to do what the Major Sailboat builders were doing, welding a flat plate to the aft of the rudder shaft.... with a few additional tweaks. A problem with 'Their' Designs, as I saw it, was the concept requires too much welding---that will bend even a 2" shaft. Heat warps Stainless Steel! I had to take the warping out which is a difficult process.

Green Rectangle at right is the rudder of Memory Rose. The bottom triangle was removed and flipped up-as drawing above has shown- and rudder and skeg lengthened 7" to increase size by 14%.

Luckily, I was able to tweak my shaft after welding to take out a .020" warp incurred during welding and then added special UHMP(ulta high molecular plastic)bearings-very slippery stuff- in a reamed out gudgeon to make sure everything slips well; mentioning to ALL visitors to our boat, the potential problem of welding a large plate on the back of a rudder shaft. There are tricks if you do, but be aware!

John Nunenmaker's rudder shaft shown below(bright and shiney! now under construction)-uses a what I think is the answer....a "keyway" to hold the aft facing horizontal support arm and later the vertical support plate, with only a "tack weld" to hold all of it to the key!-no major weldments!

The key cannot move up as the keyway is short and the arms are press fit using hot/cold application techniques.

[Note below: CSY used a piece of Flat Stock slipped into a milled out hole in the rudder and then-if you have good eyes, can see that 2, .375" pins were inserted perpendicular to the flat bar to hold it.................too much material removed from the shaft..this is where the rudder will break (at the upper bar) if you back into anything.

CSY factory, used Bronze,(above) then machined out material for(3)...... 3/8"H x 2"L slots for the 3 pieces of bronze flat bar to exit the shaft. It was the UPPER bar that will be the first to fail if you accidentally back into a sand bar or mud flat too hard or. The Flat 2" bar was inserted into a milled out portion of the rudder shaft and then the shaft was drilled for 2- 3/8" dowls or pins to hold the flat bar in place. Removing that bronze material for the slot as well as material perpendicular to those ( 2)-3/8" dowl holes, severely weakens the rudder at the junction of the "upper flat bar and rudder shaft." The machining removes almost HALF the material and strength of the original 2" shaft.

Ok, if you do not back into anything or overstress the rudder by maybe letting the wheel go when in reverse and having the rudder slam into one of it's stops, you probably will be fine. I am writing this as this is where CSY rudders have failed-to my knowledge. If you are concerned, you have benefit of the experience/thoughts of others. In my case, I know it is not difficult to screw up and back into some mud or sand in tight quarters. I have already screwed up and released the rudder while backing up and heard it slam over. I intend to set my rudder to windward when hove to and if I ever have to use my sea anchor, the rudder will be locked to one side taking on much loading. I want to be able to count on as much safety as I can build into my boat before I need it. Did it with everything above water, no sense ignoring what's below.

I first learned of this problem from Bob Jefferies, years ago when he snapped his shaft while visiting a small reef in Belize. HE, fixed his shaft while at anchor but I truly doubt many of us would have the abilities or mindset of old Bob. He was in his 70's and so was his crew-but they were men of exceptional ability-sailors. It's best if his ideas are done as "preventative measures, ashore and in a boat yard but..". The 3 bolt idea (below), can bring you home so why not do it now instead, as a 'supportive' measure that could be taken by anyone during their next haul out...just to help. Just an idea if all seems OK, now.

At the top of the rudder's horizontal glass work [and the apparent place that the rudder shaft will most likely give way (7" down),] pre-drill a few (3), 3/8" to 1/2" holes from port to starboard thru the rudder. You might be able to interpret well the distance by the photos offered above. Since the Original Rudder is filled with a slurry of polyester resin, it is hard as a brick. The bolts will tie the fiberglass portion of the rudder to the internal Bronze skeleton. This will help or maybe alleviate the loads on the 'weak' point that "I" feel has been the culprit of rudder failure.

Rudder Update, Oct. 18, 2008

2007-01-06T01:10:00.004-05:00

"Alice's Restaurant"
what a movie!

Do you remember the funny scene where Officer Obie and his crew were taking photos of the garbage Woody and the gang threw off the side of the road?

The Photos: " Glossy 8"x 10" black and white's, with circles and Arrow's/depicting the location of the garbage and the extent of the Crime Scene!!!" I loved the movie and still love the song but, I am cringing now that I have to be like Officer Obie and show photos! It's good to know and I have been lucky to have recourses for this.

Top of Shaft that would normally be INSIDE the fiberglass of rudder is shown. The shaft shown here, shows only a 1/4" of shaft remaining that would have extended outside/and UP from the fiberglass.

(The Upper section of this rudder shaft has been cut off )

Plenty of corrosion, wear and flaking going on.

Well today I got out my camera and took some photos of a typical 2" CSY rudder shaft.
No circles or arrow's to point to anything. Degredation of the Bronze is evident.

View facing the Top flat bar: The 2" Bronze Shaft: Milled for 3/8" flatbar insertion then drilled for (2) brass dowels. The weak point as I see it, is at this jucture of the machining for the upper flat bar and it's 2 3/8' dowels. Probably NO problem if the metals are not degraded and/or stressed to a breaking point by backing into something underwater....like the bottom!

My eyes first saw the inside of a 'broken CSY 44 rudder, in '88 or '89. It was caused by backing into sand in a remote Caribbean anchorage. I built a new rudder for my boat in '94 as a precautionary measure. From then on, when the subject came up, offered what I could to others. I did not take, nor do I have, any pictures of the broken rudder I worked on in the eighties or the rebuild, but sure wish I did. Eventually, I got tired of 'conversational static' when I would mention the weak spot in design or suggestions/ideas on a fix, as well as a complete failure of the Topica list to be researched by anyone/anytime. For this reason, I started the CSYsailboats site. Now, I'm going to add more comments and photos.

Viewed slightly from the side. Note that the Flat Bar has been cut off prior to photographing and the Pins have been partially pressed out for demonstration purposes. This area is the weak link. Too much material removed by machining.

Some folks have been happy that the written material and photographs are here. Yet others seem to wish I'd .....disappear, and maybe take this subject, text and photos with me! Nah folks, it ain't going to happen!

It has been suggested by others, that when PLAY, CRACKS,VOIDS or any such anomalies were found on the top of their rudder, that a "fix" can be attained by:

1. a flushing with fresh water.
2. allowing time for a drip dry/days, weeks or months.
3. grinding or scraping a trough near the evidence of damage and then-
4. pouring a thinned or.................? thickened? batch of resin into the crack till no more can be added.
5.then simply, paint and launch.

I disagree.

Another side view(Flat Bar cut off) and the dowels partially pressed out for demostration purposses.

Here's why, in no particular order:

-Salt or fresh water has been seeping into these rudders for maybe... 30 years. Any and all sea life-- those slippery little critters that you cannot keep off your one year old bottom paint?! Well they've been living and dying inside every crack that water can enter. To do any meaningful FILL, would require Total Cleaning/abrasion, which is just not possible with a fresh water rinse. Then, a "Fill" of epoxy or almost anthing known to man in the way of a thin enough liquid to get in, can not CREATE a bond that will accomplish what the Bronze Bars were meant to do. The BRONZE BARS pushing against the internal fiberglass, CREATES THE ABILITY TO SAFELY TURN THE RUDDER. .... not a bond of fiberglass slurry to the shaft surface.

-NO amount of flushing will clean the surfaces inside, fiberglass or bronze, to a level (shiny/squeeky clean) that would satisfy any product. The application of anything worth buying for maintenance or repair, calls for a clean surface and probably abraded.
-whatever caused the cracking, play or internal void (that might NOW, accept a volume of liquid) has not been deciphered nor repaired... so there still is NO FIX.

The space has just been filled again by a liquid.(remember, the OEM filled it too).

-For any meaningful protection from water intrusion into a rudder, a seal must exist between the fiberglass and bronze, both top and bottom. The original rudder guru's did not figure this in.
Epoxy and fiberglass eventually will separate due to expansion/contraction or stresses, enough to allow water to ingress without a sealant at the juncture..

Not a hard project once you have everything else done!

-The strength inside the rudder comes from the (3) three, 3/8" x 2" Flat Bars that are pinned to the shaft, then encapsulated with a slurry of resin, within a fiberglass outer shell. If the shaft breaks or the bars snap or just weaken, an epoxy pour will not save the day. The fiberglass needs to be solidly held to the shaft by something and the 'design' specifies that the 3 flat bars to this. In the original design, the Upper bar/shaft point seems to me to be taking the major loading.

-30 years underwater, electrolysis, galvanic action, stresses, miss adventures by skippers and a weakened shaft 'by design', at the point of most stress, leads me to say; "Hey! let's look at some pictures." These seem to reflect what I remember from and later, with minor exceptions.

This shaft does not look bad at all. Minimal de-zincking (shown by reddish color usually on surface then going deeper).

Problem week point. The 2" shaft has been machined to accept the 2" flat bar and then at this same location but coming in at 90 degrees, the shaft has been drilled out for (2), 3/8" brass pins to hold the flat bar. All in all, nearly 1/2 of the shaft has been machined away at this point. The Machining done at the Upper Bar is the "Weak link in the chain".

It is at This Point, that these shafts have broken in the past, the Upper Flat Bar.

It was inserted into the shaft 7" down from upper surface of rudder. So now ask, what is worse? Reduction in material strength due to years of electolosis/dezincking the shaft/corrosion(you chose the term, or when manufactured--- removing nearly half the material of the shaft? I don't see a difference that would effect my confidence. It's also been proven that some boats have both.

While this shaft does not look as bad as the 4 others I've seen out and close up, it should be clear that this shaft is not in great shape inside. I did not grind away near the upper bearing location, but it is clear that there is significant deterioration of the surface and some cracking and flaking away of the bronze noted.

John Nunenmaker did not try to rebuild his rudder, once he dropped it from his boat for inspection. He saw immediately that the area around the gland/bearing surface was worn and de-zincked. He ground down more than 1/4" into the area to see how far the metal had deteriorated and quit as he was way too deep into the shaft for his comfort level. He's glad he now has new material and still quite satisfied he did the project.

Click on this drawing, or any photo to enlarge

I asked him if he had any second thoughts about his choice to not use his old rudder. He laughed and said something like "Hell No!".

The Nunenmakers are departing in 6 weeks or so on their beautifully redone, CSY 44 W.O. "FREEDOM"

As John said to me today, "Ron we are among a fraction of the One Percent." We laughed but maybe he is right.
We fix what we have to our standards and build things we can count on. (Some photos of Johns rudder job are on the other Rudder Post if you care to see his work.)

Corrosion, flaking, cracking within the top inch of the normally encapsulated shaft.

To answer a question brought up days ago asking for information on rudders rebuilt, repaired etc. I can only list what I know in my area. Except for one, these are all boats local to my area.

1989 "Whatever" 44' PH New Broken*
1994 " Memory Rose" 44 PH New Preventative
1999 " Rhapsody" 33 New Broken
2000 "Dixie Jo" 44 WO Replaced Broken**
2000 "Peter Rabbit" 44 WO New Preventative
2000+/- "Butterfly's Dream 44 WO ? Damaged
2002-4? "Chanticleer" 44 WO New Preventative but orig. rdr. needed repair.
2007/8 "Freedom" 44 WO New Preventative

*note that the first rudder to break was only 11 years old. Corrosion was not the problem- it broke from forces of backing into sand. It can happen to anyone, but now you know what is inside and maybe how to effect a repair or design a new one.
** backing in a canal

I can understand the reason NOT to address this.

1. I did not know about it or I don't want to know about it.
2. I don't know how to fix it.
3. It's too much of a project for me
4. It costs to much
5. There are no such repair facilities around here.
6. I don't trust a 'one off design' of another.
7. I only daysail and my insurance covers tows back to my dock
8. I'm going to sell my boat soon so let the next guy take care of it.
9. Never heard a thing about it!

All might have validity. Your choice

I feel for those who pay good money for a good boat, so they can really go somewhere and do something, and also, already understand the obvious things like the cost of sails(one alone can cost more than a complete rudder), rigging, roller furlers, bimini's, cushions, interiors, stoves, engines etc. etc. etc, that, a few grand for something like a good solid rudder should not be such a heart stopper!
Be serious. IF you were to drive an old (30 yr. old) car around town few of us would do it on 30 year old tires, but: you could live with it, locally, until a tire blows.

Would you drive the interstate or off road with it to Alaska?...loaded down with the family and another 3 tons of goodies? Maybe a storm or two along the way? No repair centers in the woods?

I doubt it.

What is different?

If you can replace everything above deck and inside and have bucks for everything else including a ton of spares, stereos, microwaves, t.v.'s and pretty things all around the boat, maybe one should consider the few but important items that will keep you and yours.....safe.

That's all I'm saying, isn't it.

An added thought. If you KNOW your boat; you have owned it forever and KNOW you have not physically damaged it by backing into anything, then you might be just fine! If you know your electrical stuff and have never had to replace your Through Hulls etc. because of galvanic/electrolosis etc. then, you are fine! If there is a problem with your under water metals in one area, then you probably have problems in ALL areas. If your Through Hulls are fine, the chances are your Rudder is fine.

However, If you are not the original owner, trust only your eyes or your intuition.

Chain Plates/for CSY and Other Great Cruising Boats worth Upgrading, Including Chain Plate Fabrication thoughts. part 1

2006-12-28T20:25:00.009-05:00

It would be wonderful if everything lasted forever but when dealing with boats, I think it is fair to say, "that is not true".

If any of us went out and bought a 1977-1981 Buick or Cadillac, we wouldn't think of taking it out on the road and pushing it to 80 or 100 mph with the original old tires on it, would we? Stainless steel, used for components such as rigging wire, chain plates, and most bolts aboard, is somewhat like rubber, in that it can and does degrade; rubber via sunlight, stainless steel via water/deoxygenated water. It doesn't mater if your eyes spot the fine cracks, the wetted material degenerates.

Rust on an interior chain plate, is a sign of water intrusion through or around the cap rail. It's difficult to determine the extent of damage by the rusting discoloration of the surface. It is known that water has seeped into the hulls around these plates on most boats. If the discoloration is there, that is the proof. After 30 years, it seems advisable to remove and replace them, just as one would do with old tires. The CSY is lucky to have reasonable accessability to the plates, so this project makes the CSY's lifespan extendable more than many or most boats out there.

Rigging wires have a life of about 10 years or a circumnavigation due to the same processes of wetting and stress loading. Why would it be reasonable to think other stainless steel under similar loads or conditions would be different? (I don't know about yours, but my boat will be 31 next month.)

I only became suspect of stainless in the mid 90's and somewhat must thank the CSY Topica list for allowing the subject to get specific, linking the problem to chain plates. Years have passed and much has occurred to confirm that 'we' the owners of this quality sailboat, need to be aware of all the components that contribute to the safety of those who travel on or in it. As I have just mentioned, we would not think of driving a car on old cracked tires, so why would we consider our boats impervious to degradation of important parts. (rigging wires 10 years-chain plates and their bolts... 30???) This is NOT a CSY problem. It IS a boat problem...All boats. http://www.amarinesurveyor.com/chainplate.htm We are lucky though that as a group, we have discussed it and doing something about it. Many vessels do not have the advantage of our history of discussion/repair solutions, so we are ahead of the pack and safer for it. For some boat brands, this might not be a doable project so they ignore it. Those boats will soon be worthless.

Do not loose the concept that surveyors will not always pick up even, 'visable' problems. They sometimes(and I think I am being kind)seem to not speak of problems that will 'kill the deal'. They are limited to 'viewing' and cannot disassemble anything in their survey, so not uncovering all defects is the reasonable outcome. Even if you ask specific questions and 'get it in writing...' you should trust that Father Time has done his thing and CYA in budgeting for repairs and replacements.

I "Chose" to remove my chainplates before there was a problem. My personal solution was to me, a CSY 44 UPGRADE. After seeing a great chain plate design in Steve Dashew's Cruising Encyclopedia, page 582, I modified their concept a bit to adapt it to the 44' CSY hull and had 10 of them made. Cutters need 6, ketches need 10. (I now use 12 to enable me to rig the mizzen independently from the main without using a triadic stay- by adding forward intermediate stays from the mizzen instead). So far, 6-12 sets of circular plates have been made and installed on CSY 44's. Wide grip, easy fabrication(identical plates) and simple installation and external for many reasons.

Bedding (original) around INTERNAL chain plate was poor. Gap shown here, of 1/4" x 1.5", allowed water to seap below decks. Rust stains on 52oo shows poor bonding and a place that water stagnated.

Photos included here are of the original CSY Triangular plates and are offered only to explain and show the 'obvious' problems. Stainless steel does not last forever and certainly does not 'IF' it is subjected to an Oxygen deprived environment, as "in a trapped area" below the teak cap rail. The bedding of the cap rail was done in such a way as to allow water to get below the cap rail and then run down hill to any opening into the hull, sometimes allowing water to drain to lockers or chain plates.

CSY chose to use 'Internal' chain plates. The chain plate then needs to have it's tang pass through the hull at deck level to attach to the rigging turnbuckles. It is at this point that caulking of some kind is needed and so doing, creates an area to entrap water. Even if only a drop or two, it will stagnate and become oxygen starved, eventually leading to crevise corrosion and stainless steel failure.

The main failure point seems to me to be the first hole below cap rail level and also the cap shroud the most common failure plate.

Failures seem to occur at or near this upper bolt hole as it is the weakest point, due to limits of material mass or weld, subjected to water degradation; then, stress from the rig. The 2" tang, is drilled for the 1/2" top mounting bolt; leaving (2) 3/4" segments of 3/8" stainless, just under the cap rail to get wet and develop 'crevice corrosion'. Add 30 years to the damp environment and rigging stresses and you get.........?

This 2" (now 1.5")drilled tang, is the weakest point of the chain plate. It's subject to crevice corrosion/and stress/it's bolt can be loosened by rigging pressure pulling it's top bolt's flat head inward thru the glass(poor fiberglass support). CSY's design of spreading the chain plate load over 5 lower bolts and only one for the top was going in the right direction in my opinion by spreading the grip over a wide area of glass, but the top bolt is being pulled inward esp. on the forward and aft lowers, which makes it subject to loosening it's grip on the hull and also allowing the upper seal to leak due to movement. That movement will eventually allow water to creep below. An external chain plate would not have had this problem and I opted for this as a fix for my boat.
The load on the "Tang" for the forward and aft lowers, is inward towards mast. The original flat head bolt up near the cap rail and under the 2" teak strip below the cap rail, gets pulled into hull at forward and aft lowers. This load can potentially allow enough movement to break a seal as the tang of the chain plate goes through to the rigs turnbuckle.

Some drawings and photos will be offered on alternative ideas demonstated by owners to aleviate the potential problem and make the chain plates 'Inspectable'.

Do NOT feel that the problem is a "CSY ONLY" problem. Aging stainless steel is a problem that ALL boats share. However, many CSY owners have addressed the issue and have solutions! Chain Plates: part 2 will cover some of them. Even after 30 years, a few projects will bring a rebuildable boat up to snuff.

For your interest: A few months ago I received an email from the editor of PACIFIC YACHTING/boating in the PACIFIC NORTHWEST, regarding my photos of CSY stainless chain plates and bolts . They did a decent write up on the faults of Stainless Steel in the marine environment and used a few of my photos. The bottom line is not my photos, but that good magazines are addressing problems that "All boats of our vintage need to address. Deterioration of metals is a subject for required reading on ALL boats. "WE" are ahead of the others in discussion of solutions!

Chain Plates/ CSY and for other Great Cruising boats worth upgrading: part 2

2006-12-10T19:38:00.013-05:00

First to consider if changing out Chain Plates is whether to just replace the originals with the exact same design, or to rethink the pros and cons to see if there might be something better.

A CSY modification like this has been done by a number of owners; externally mounted, not internal, 1/2" plate not 3/8", wide 4" tang not 2", 316 polished/highly corrosive resistant stainless steel/more bolts(8 not 6)/countersunk to eliminate moisture trapping or line snagging, wider footprint gripping the hull, moreso than original 5 bolt base/not less.

Some have replaced the original "Internal" plates and tried to keep them bedded properly. One, has tried to use a superior stainless steel (duplex) and make a one piece replacement rather than a weldment, yet stay with internal mounting. The replacement of chain plates brings up the question of pro's and con's of either Internal or External plates. Internal plates can be removed and a shop can make up 'exact' replacements(each plate tho, will have different angles) plus all the original problems of potential leaks and crevice corrosion/inaccessible inspection through deck/cap rail material. External plates are one piece cutouts and therefore identical to each other; only afterwards are the plates tangs bent inward at the appropriate fore or aft angle needed to align with the stay or shroud. Internal plates have been a weldment but an exit slot might need to be modified if New Plates are cut from one piece of stainless steel or thicker. External need to be better looking, so polishing manually or electro-polishing is the norm, and both measures highly reduces degradation or even discoloration later.

10" circular plate with "Double Tang", mounted above original rub rail/shown on pilothouse ketch. (a tang wide enough for 2 attachment holes, allow adding a shackle for an extra attachment point (when needed) + extra beef in the tang area ) click on photo for better view

Do not forget, that a 33' CSY and a 44' have different size plates, so the amount of S.S. might be double on the bigger boat. Also if you go From a thinner plate to a thicker plate....again you are using more Stainless Steel and it's sold by the pound. IF you are going to mount your plate where you can see it...you probably want it to shine. That will cost some in time or dollars for the labor required. Manual polishing is beautiful and worthy of time and effort, but so is Electro Polishing, as it also protects the surface from rusting. Manual polishing and electro polishing combined, is even better! A no brainer!

It should be noted that Peter Stolken, ex floor manager of the CSY plant, later on-added external chain plates-to his own prototype CSY pilothouse. His vertical straps are common for external chain plates on wooden boats and the look agrees with traditional aesthetics drawn by Peter Schmitt for the CSY.

VERTICAL STRAPS used on this CSY 37 looks traditional but round would look great too and have more plate and bolts. Skinny straps have a history of breaking so why go there?

On wooden boats, vertical straps are tied into the vessels planks. Fiberglass boats can use the older aesthetic or build

plates
tied into the hull horizontally (as CSY plates do to use the support structure of the hull's glasswork.)

Peter's "Independence"(left), a custom/one off pilothouse has retrofitted external vertical chain plates. Photo by David Kummerel. click to enlarge any photo

A 4" tang on another design offers strength plus original 6 bolts. Machine work by JTR/Gulfport, Fl.

After learning of possible chain plate problems in the late 90's, I started to research how other boats were handling the design issue. Steve Dashew's circular design for his Deerfoot Yacht chain plates looked good to me. (It's on page 582 of his Cruising Encyclopedia.) CSY had used a 1/4" triangular base with 5 bolts and one above, welded to a vertical 3/8" piece of flat bar which became the tang above deck. I took Dashew's circle idea, to make a 10"diameter with 4" tang, cut out of one piece of 1/2" thick, 316L stainless steel, mounted externally. One piece/no welds or it's possible crevice corrosion/ thicker material/ highly polished for less corrosion/more bolts-8 vs.6/ countersunk for less chance of crevice corrosion of the attachment bolts, yet inspectable and accessible. The 10"diameter will clear all 44' CSY's. In every aspect, more rather than less than original.

Right:
External 10" plate mounted before new external high rub rail was added. The teak cap rail is removed here BUT, that is not a part of this chain plate job!
A small amount of the original teak cap rail can and should get cut away, to allow the external plate tang to lie flush against the fiberglass of the hull.

S.V.BEAUJOLAIS replaced chain plates in Panama. Rick Heim of Gulfport Machine, St. Pete, Fl. made and shipped them. Work was done dockside, with Roger and a local worker taking on the task. Looks good huh? Roger admits a little extra time later on will be needed to make things bristol again, but I think they did a fine job.

I designed these circular plates for 'my' boat, but offer photos and text for others to investigate. As you can see, the plate fits 'properly'.

-CSY original chain plates were internally mounted and their tangs penetrated the cap rail. This left the tang encapsulated through fiberglass and teak for about 2" and could not be checked for crevice corrosion down in that area.

Drawing of plate (lower right).. note upper 2 holes were slightly lowered so that nuts and washers could be easily installed-inside the hull- and below interior of cap rail. Center bolt lowered only for aethetics of design/it Looks better than centered!

External plates, instead of the internal ones, can be inspected visually and if caulking is necessary; it is easy to accomplish. -CSY interior plate used 6 bolts-the circular external 10"design uses 8 (and countersunk bolts that are easy to bed/seal; note: I do not recommend External Hex Head bolts which catch a lazy sheet and are more likely to suffer from crevice corrosion under their heads as they are near impossible to keep caulked/sealed perfectly.

Single 2" Tang design scrapped. Advantage of wide double hole tang was too overpowering to dismiss, so all plates were made with 4" tang. (Click on any photo to enlarge it).
Use of flat Socket Head bolts (special order)sit flush with the outer plate and offer a strong grip for tool installing or removing that Slot or Phillip heads do not. CSY, the flat head end of the chain plate bolt was embedded in the rub rail and not accessible. -Going to "external plates", gives you the option of easily changing out bolts if you are concerned as they are not embedded but installing 316 grade bolts in the first place solves future problems. -CSY plates were welded, this design is not.

/
S.V. Soggypaws/WT 44, with 10" plates and wide 4" tangs, installed in 2005. Dave chose to remove the teak cap rail, adding instead an aluminum slotted toe rail forward.

Plate project took Dave and Stacey / husband wife team, about a week.

Mounting externally, helps reduce the possibility of oxygen deprivation and therefore should fair better in the elements. Also, they are easy to inspect.

A slightly different twist on the circular design was used by Pete a few years ago, out on the west coast on his boat Imagine. check out this link to his efforts, including his comments on cutting stainless steel using water jet technology and it's very reasonable cost.

www.imaginecruising.com/web/the_boat/repairs_and_reinforcements.htm

As said before, if you were buying a late 70's car of any 'make', you would do a number of things to make sure it is up to specs for a good safe ride. No mater what boat you chose, do the same. Be safe, stay well and keep smiling, it does not add anything significant to the cost of the vessel and really helps to bring back the strength and safety factor.

Antigua 44's

2006-11-25T20:02:00.003-05:00

It should be noted that Antigua 44's are not CSY's.

Different names because, they were different companies.

Antiguas were built by the Coats brothers in St. Petersburg, Florida. They bought the molds from Van Ost's Tampa, Florida operation when he was closing down the CSY operations.

Antiguas were built in a much smaller facility in northern St. Petersburg. Most of the employees were different and the emphasis was different. Antigua only produced 'one' model of the 44' Hull-a shoal draft Walk Thru and with different specs. Built using the Walk Through/center cockpit "molds" , which I noted sat outside for years at the Antigua plant. Few were built. Antigua ALSO built I think ONE sailboat, called an Antigua 53' which was a actually a Morgan 51 with a slanted stern popular in the mid 80's race boats. IT or THEY were sloop rigged, rather than the original Ketch rig to probably bring down cost and therefore the selling price. Price was very important in those years of high Oil/Resin Prices. Boat builders were going under and Antigua was trying to start and then survive in this troubled market.

I have known 3 of the Antiqua 44's. There were "non-CSY problems" with each. I personally saw blisters the size of eggs on the bottom of one Antigua being ground out by the owner and filled with fairing compound(not what would be considered a quality/structural repair for such a deep glass penetration) This was noted on two separate haul outs here in St. Pete during the mid 90's. Big blisters were 'not' a problem on CSY's.

Other problems noted by Antigua owners were serious problems with water and fuel tanks, so beware and make your 'survey' extensive to be informed and do not use the history of CSY Walk-thru models. The boats might look alike, but were different companies. I believe Antigua decks were cored rather than a solid layup and would look for evidence of other cost savings in any area of construction/manufacturing if surveying an Antigua 44. Antigua Chain Plates were simple 4 bolt "T" weldments, not the 6 bolt CSY plates. I have been in interiors of Antiguas as well as one or two unfinished CSY hulls which were completed by the Coats brothers and sold off as Antiguas. Also there were private owners- that finished bare hulls or partially completed hulls that I believe were documented as Antiqua's. One such vessel"Pelikan", was finished here in the Tampa bay area by Vietnamese carpenters. There ARE differences. A big one is Displacement. The CSY was 37,000 lbs. and the Antigua was "I think" 33,000 lbs. TWO TONS, (11% of CSY displacement)..was not put into the Antiquas.
Since all the equipment is probably the same...the difference is 4,000 pounds less fiberglass and resin!

I personally feel CSY's to be a better built vessel and as such, they should be consciously separated from Antiguas in any discussion. Any hype and BUC numbers that seem to reflect a quality difference are only numbers and marketing hype that have not been cleared up. It's your money but......................................... an Antigua 44, is not a Caribbean Sailing Yacht 44' Walk Thru Model.

Shop apples to apples.

Sea Cocks, something to think about.

2006-11-07T11:00:00.001-05:00

SEA COCKS, are a "Door".

A "Door to a HOLE".... in YOUR boat.

Who, wants a hole in their boat?

Right, no one!

.........but, 'some' are needed.

Most CSY's are nearly 30 years old. Metals below waterline have been and are, subjected to 'Crevice corrosion", electrolysis, galvanic action. Our 'bronze doors' might need a good check, or replacement.

Bronze Thru-Hulls are great. It's a great metal for underwater fittings but can deteriorate it to the point of failure especially if ignored.

so..... Keep the door in good shape & closeable!

Sea Cocks should have a rotating ball inside, or, a tapered plug. Gate Valves, which is a sliding door arrangement are to be replaced and considered trash. Of the true sea cocks, Groco and other makes have time tested bronze units, some with a base that can be screwed or bolted to the hull or pad backing up the seacock; some do not have this extra flange. Going to Home Depot and buying a 'BRASS' Ball Valve for $5. is not cool. Brass will not survive and not an exceptable replacement for bronze..there is a big difference. Remember, if your 'cheapy' fails, your boat might sink-even with you aboard-and your insurance company will not pay.

Forespar sells a reinforced nylon valve that is somewhat different from traditional bronze seacocks and I do recommend them and have had them installed for 12 years, but do your own homework.

Backing plates made from wood can and will deteriorate and fail their purpose if allowed to get wet. If you find your backing plates made of wood is soft and worthless, do not blame the wood. Blame the last owners or yourself. Wood does not disintegrate until something gets it wet "Over and Over"! More than likely, the simple 'Thru Hull" was bedded properly. More than likely too is that the Hose, connected to the top of the seacock was not secured properly and the slight weeping of moisture has finally 'rotted' your wood backing plate.

OK. How could this be prevented for the next round? Well, coat your "Marine Plywood" backing plate with several coats of epoxy resin AFTER you have shaved it to perfection and it fits the hull like a glove. Then paint it nicely.. Backing plates for seacocks are to strengthen the mount for THIN or weak hulls. Thin hulls whether steel, aluminum or fiberglass Need a backing plate. They can be weaked under stress from side loading or fatigue to the point of failure with hull flexing. Seacocks need to be capable of sideways pressure of 500 lbs according to ABYC.
So to get them more inflexible, make the hull 'Thicker' with a backing block. On CSY's, this might not be a necessity, but another consideration is that the inner and outer layers of the hull might not be perfectly parallel. If not, the 'head' of the Through Hull and the 'base' of the Sea Cock might not be parallel. This could apply side loading to the threads on the 'tight' side, a no no.

In 1994, while the boat was on the hard with projects underway, I layed up a section of fiberglass 1'x2' properly wetting out the cloth and squeegying the excess resin from it, then when cured, made parts from it. The finished fiberglass material was 5/16-3/8 thickness. For Thru Hulls, I used a hole saw for the proper hole diameter, then used a sabre saw to surround that hole for a total diameter of 4" or so. Ending up with a round backing plate made of an indestructible material and bedded with the Thru Hull and Valve until firmly snug then, let things set up. Twelve years and not a drop of moisture and, with the non metalic Forespar valves, no deterioration.

PETERSON MARINE,INC....CSY GOOD GUY

2006-11-04T21:14:00.000-05:00

Refrigeration/ Water Makers etc. etc.	Ron Sheridan
	Nov 04, 2006 18:11 PST

This week, the CSY discussion has leaned towards refrigeration rebuilds
or replacements for the 37/33 models if I'm getting this right. The
questions are also leaning towards the normal questions of air vs. water
cooling.

This weekend here in St. Petersburg we have been blessed again with a
local show called "Sail Expo"...a national event.

I took care of business yesterday, but today I floated back thanks to
tickets passed on to me by David and Elaine, up in the Panhandle of
Florida. "Thank you both!"

While at the show today, I thought of things other than my own and
looked at refrigeration systems and talked to the Refer guys, and then more
in depth to Pat Peterson of Peterson Marine, Inc.. Some of you might remember his name.

A few years ago, my wife and I did our best to put on the FIRST, CSY
GAM, a 3 day weekend event, here in St. Petersburg, Fl.. It turned out
to be a hell of alot more than we ever anticipated and all very
positive. 50 folks showed up, not!! the 20 we hoped for. [We realllllly
juggled up to the last minute to make things work]. A "southwinds"
magazine article was written about it. The son of John Van Ost, (the
owner of the company- "CSY" Bob Van Ost,) showed up as well as Rick
Shelley, past Quality Control Manager and Station manager. We had a
HOOT of a time and am sorry that EVERY ONE of the CSY FAMILY could not
attend.BUT...............................

YES BUT........................

a gentleman, ex CSY worker, that had made his way in life to show up at
the GAM (an exemplary person to the extreme,) raised his hand also.
Who was this guy? Pat Petersen. Rick Shelley called me up at the
last minute and said "hey this guy worked at the factory and would
really like to come!"
At this last minute, we were actually close to saying NO. "Luckily",
Pat was just before that moment and we said Great!! we had a seat left.
{Since Pat was an employee of the company way back when and we really
wanted to bring in the ...old...blood, he was definitely 'in'. }

Pat came back to us and said, he wanted to offer a Door Prize. He
offered a $1600. Air Conditioning unit!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!
WE..........after MUCH solicitation, had received plastic whistles and
other toys from West Marine, but Pat stepped up Big Time.

At the beginning of our main dinner festivities, of our CSY GAM, Pat Petersen showed up and said, "I'd like to up my ante
and present a door prize of a better, TWO THOUSAND $ AC UNIT.

well OK,,,what could we say...no??

Over the years, every time I have met this guy he is as straight as he
was then. Positive! to the hilt.

This weekend I got to see him again at the show and asked him if he had
any difficuty with me placing his Company as a LINK on my CSYsailboats
LINK list. Also, upon further discussions about the latest questions of
you CSY crew about refrigeration problems and most of it was about Adler
Barbor, I asked him, in private to discuss the issue in depth with me.
He did. I had also previously checked out the Adler Barbor competition
at the show and told him that so he could answer my critical objections
honestly.(by the way, I will send a copy of this to him. You and he
need to deal if necessary on a level table.) I trust Pat. I really do
like the guy...keep in mind he is Not a mega corp. but came up from
humble love of boats and passed on $2k of thanks to CSY through the Only
Meeting we have ever had as a group that I know of. He IS a major business however so please do not treat him as 'small fry' he is honest and good and
getting his just deserves/busy as hell...but is still honorable and I think kind to the CSY family.

I told him I would put a link to his site on mine. He deserves it!
I asked him if he would mind addressing personal questions from YOU and maybe BOAT SHOW PRICING!!!??? HE
SAID...........FINE!

Your choice, your dime. I think you will be happy. Please let me know if you are not!

Petersen Marine, Inc.
serving the Bay Area for over 25 years

Pat Petersen

++++++++++please see more at the CSY site below, I will try to upload
info there to help you.

NOTE ALSO, PETE SAYS HE IS REALLY TOO BUSY TO KEEP UP WITH HIS WEBSITE SO PLEASE "CALL HIM". ---TELL HIM YOU ARE REFERRED TO THIS VIA HIS DONATION OF A CSY GAM DOOR PRIZE. HE WILL REMEMBER OUR CONVERSATION THEN. I HAVE NEVER ORDERED A THING FROM HIM NOR NEED TO. THIS IS FOR THOSE OF YOU STILL NEEDING EQUIPMENT.
CLICK ON THIS PINK FORM TO ENLARGE IT!!
http://memoryrose.blogspot.com
http://csysailboats.blogspot.com
http://ron-sheridan.blogspot.com
S.V. MEMORY ROSE, PILOTHOUSE KETCH, #2

One Good Turn Deserves Another

2006-11-03T08:54:00.001-05:00

Old sailor's advice to keep a ship or anything else of value tied up secure by taking yet another turn of the rope around the mooring bits.

Drive Trains and Overall Performance

2006-11-02T09:55:00.009-05:00

Every year or so, a question regarding engines, transmissions, propellers, cruising speed etc. sparks conversation and sometimes debate. It would take a very rare bird, to say that what they have, or what they have done, is 'not' what they now think is best, but in all conversation it does pay to listen or read carefully, so keep that in mind. I try to be fair, and keep to facts, but opinions mine and others will at times, disagree. Reading comments of others on Topica more than once and with care, sometimes catching the posts tagging along under the response, that have been sent outside of the mainstream Topica discussion, always proves interesting.

Points I noted this round of discussion:
1-Most folks would like to be able to cruise at or near hull speed.
2-Speed is not a constant and is subject to weather and wave conditions.
3-Fuel consumption varies with engine size and amount of effort demanded from it.
4-Some engines parts are getting hard to find for some engines but some are still serviced worldwide.
5-Yamaha's inboard is becoming a common choice.
6-Naturally Aspirated engines vs. Turbo choices will be debated for a long time to come.
7-Drive train and performance includes engine, transmission ratios, propeller diameter as well as pitch.
8-Changing engines is more than likely financially more costly and labor intensive, than rebuilding one or a direct replacement.
9-Dig deeper into all comments made.

1. To be able to cruise at hull speed, the engine needs to be able to run continuously at less than max and allow the boat to do 1.26 X the Square Root of the waterline length. (1.26 used here is for fat boats like ours.........a newer streamlined underbody would use 1.35 or there abouts)
This gives the 44 a theoretical hull speed of about 7.5 knots. Note that when motoring up to 5 or 6, the wake is minimal but when trying 7 or 8 the wake drastically increases. The force required to move the boat through the water (and move the water up into the atmosphere causing a wake) is increasing radically the faster you go. The boat is trying to plane, bow up, stern down. The ideal is to be able to get close to this 7.5 for a 44 in moderate conditions. Doing 6 or 6.5 is easily doable and a whole lot less expensive.

2. Flat calm reduces resistance to the hull and allows it to gain speed slowly over time to reach cruising speed. Throw in some 1 or 2' waves will slow down any drive train combination, but these small waves, or larger, will have less effect on larger engines and larger diameter props.
CSY didn't put a 24" prop on their boats because they liked to waste money. Larger diameter props, are a design element of displacement boats; bigger diameter/smaller pitch. If you want to go fast with a planing hull, it is the opposite; reduced diameter and increased pitch. To give a radical example, consider instead of your diesel engine, the manufacturer placed a 75 HP Outboard Engine on your boat(OK, even with an extended shaft). You could make the engine scream, but the small prop would give poor boat acceleration and have little effect against headwinds or waves. Point made?
Props are also designed with overall surface area integral to its intended use. Sailboat props are normally contain a surface of less than 50% of the overall area of the circle. Powerboat props usually go about 70%. That means, when looking at your prop from astern, the sail prop covers half of the available area that water has to pass or grab, and power props grab 70% of it and also restricts water passage by 70% when sailing. Props with 5 or more blades are used for grabbing even more water and are common on tugs, workboats, ships, subs and can use 100% or more of the circle by using overlapping flukes.

Original 24"Prop of CSY

Since sailboats 'sometimes' really like to sail, 50 % surface area or less is the rule. I have seen smaller 3 blade power boat props
on an Antigua and the owner said it was fine. I've heard 20" for CSY's and believe their owners are happy. I have heard owners of max props, Martecs and auto props all tell of the great performance. Never, have I heard a complaint, about a change from CSY's 24", 50% sail prop design element, but the differences are very noticable. Martecs and Maxprops "flat blade" design can at best give you about 85% of the efficiency of a standard prop because the standard prop flukes are designed to create lift. You will never get the same speed 'motoring' with a feathering or folding prop, at the same rpms as you will with a properly pitched fixed prop. As one owner did, increasing his pitch from CSY 15" to 17", helps because that is a 13% boost in pitch. In calm water you can expect a boost from near 6kts. to near 7kts. With 75 HP, you can repitch to 18". In choppy water you will still need diameter. Ten years ago, I installed a 24" Martec, 3 bladed feathering prop. It was great for sailing, but I lost a knot under power even though I tweaked it's external pitch adjustments.

Martec, 3 blade, feathering, 24" diameter propeller at left

3a. Fuel consumption. Much ado about nothing! I never heard of a Ferrari owner complaining about gas mileage, did you? Many owners have more into their boats than it would take to snap up a used Farrari, so come on. I put a grand a year into my boats tank (maybe) and alot more into my car. If an element like 1.5 gallons/hour or 2, or nail it to the wall for a few hours and burn 3, is really going to effect our cruising speed over time, then I'm talking to the wrong group!

3b. Engine life. I've had my boat 15 years and have put less than 2000 hours on. (True, I work on it too much and sail too little, but) I have traveled from the Chesapeake to Mobile along the coast. Around Florida a couple of times. Across the Gulf of Mexico to Pensacola a handful of times, up the Tombigbee waterway from Mobile, Alabama up to Kentucky, then all the way through the Cumberland River and Tennessee River, then back to do the Florida Keys a couple of times and yes some local daysailing. Fifteen years, less than 2000 hours. My old Lehman will last 15-50K hours without a rebuild, so I guess I'm good for another century if I keep spares:)

4. Parts. IF you wish to keep your engine, spend some time and you will locate a part, or rarely you can have something else made or adapted. If the engine is an antiquated design, using an engine that CSY used and built their stringers for, might simplify your hunt and reduce your cost. Ed Marill exchanged his engine for a totally rebuilt Perkins 4-236, 75 hp. for about $7000. if I remember correctly. No major projects like stringers to cut, extensive glass work, and adaptation of systems, transmissions or props. I've done them all. Ed did repitch his 24" CSY prop to 18" and was able to lower his rpms and gain hull speed while cruising. [ A 3" increase in pitch is a 20% increase. In theory, 20% more forward movement in the same period of time or RPM's. 6+ knots is now 7.5.] Later, he added a 23" Auto Prop and was very satisfied with it as well. Like probably most owners, Ed chose not to do the majority of work himself but to hire a pro for engine install. I'm guessing he laid out somewhere above $10,000 to complete the engine replacement/upgrade. I'm also guessing that total cost for an installation would run $20,000 for engine/material/labor on an engine install of a different configuration. Some of us are capable of doing our own work and finding good shops or outlets for parts, to keep costs down, but it is still a major task.

5. Yamaha. My 2 cents. Remember Evenrude, Johnson, Murcury? Sure they are still around but their marketing is not up the the imports. Maybe even their product is more similar to Chevy or Ford and thus are loosing the import battle, but certainly are not the Scott-Atwaters or Lawsons or Elgins of yester-year. Marketing is more decisive in how we now live than engineering. Sad.
Thirty some odd years ago, I was a marketing major so when I got an eye opener in St. Lucia, it all made too much sense.
We had been on charter and when leaving I asked the driver to detour if necessary to find a place to leave our extra food and supplies. I did not want them to be left for the Moorings community.
He drove to a small fishing village on the East coast of St. Lucia. Extremely poor town. We left the provisions with the church/shelter and the driver began to talk about the great thing Yamaha did for the town. They came in a donated brand new Yamahas to all the fishermen!
Yup. What a way to grab the market.
Don't get me wrong, Yamaha, like Hondas and Toyotas are great! Early on the Japanese imports were sold at or less than their American competion to gain market share, just as the relatively recent Hyundi. They last along time, but when you need a part, it's going to cost....especially without competition. Ok, enough on that, but it is important to know where you are going to live, cruise and what parts you might need.

6. Naturally Aspirated vs. Turbo. I'll try to let this beast sleep, but note the turbo discussion on the Topica site and others will get into "carbon build up, rebuilds, turbo failure and maintanace tasks". Do you methodically maintain everything aboard and would you 'like' to add this to the list?

7. Drive trains. It's a package. You can't put George Foreman's body on PeeWee Herman's legs! Same with engines and boats. The HP, Torque, RPMS, have to be matched to transmission Ratios and propeller Diameter and Pitch, to have the boat do what you want it to do. Increasing torque can give you the ability to add pitch. Just adding HP without changing final drive rpms, will basically keep you at the same speed, because the prop is going no faster. Adding HP and using it by moving more water is accomplished by changing transmission ratios or more easily, adding pitch to the prop. Decreasing prop size to save money or changing to a folding or feathering propeller will most always will not give you the surface area needed to propel the CSY in rough water as well as the std. size prop. Auto Prop, might be an exception.... Displacement vessels should restrict their final prop speed to between 700 and 1000 rpms to avoid slippage and cavitation. Gear accordingly. Adding HP might suggest changing the shaft strength(you cannot change diameter-you are limited to 1.5"). To do this, if you upgrade, Aquamet 22 stainless steel seems to be the recommended material. It is extremely corrosion resistant and formulated to take engine vibration. Aquamet 19 is similar but not as good with vibrations...fine for shafting a new rudder though.

8. Price. discussed above
9. Dig deeper. Ask, ask and ask again, dig deeper into the subject, until you really feel satisfied. It's certainly better than digging deeeeeeper into your pocket later.

SWIM PLATFORMS: retrofitting a CSY

2006-11-01T14:07:00.002-05:00

The first swim platform I actually saw being made for a CSY 44 was on Bob Jefferies Pilothouse named "Whatever". He used 5" wide teak and fabricated brackets above and below, to attach the assembly to the stern. Bob
"Whatever", shown above.

was proud of his project but admitted that it caused a lot of 'wave slap' at anchor and he would cut more holes in it for drainage if he were to do it again.

"Soggypaws" on the right.

I began to notice swim platforms more and took pictures and notes when I saw one that I thought was interesting. All, displayed a pattern that obviously evolved over time and suggest, "Keep it small and Let it Drain." Once installed, swim platforms become functional elements of a vessel that must be reliable in any weather condition. Dave McCampbell's solution on Soggypaws, seemed the best overall example of simple functional design. When ever possible, I believe form should follow function so I chose to basically copy his design, with a few exceptions. Dave chose 1.5" aluminum, I chose 1.25" stainless steel. I added an inverted rail underneath the aft end, that serves several functions; hand rail when swimming, support for framework in case of severe loading by people or waves, and it prohibits my inflatable from getting caught underneath! This could also be a safety factor as a hand or foot caught under the platform with a rising dingy could spell injury in a heart beat!

When 6000 series aluminum is used or electopolished 316L(low carbon) stainless steel, the noticeable corrosion seems to be very minor. Since fasteners rust quickly, I changed those that were holding the 1/2" textured starboard to my stainless steel framework to brass flat heads. They will turn green, but that looks 'shippy' to me. . . rust does not.

"Memory Rose"-beginning installation, at right.

Varying thoughts on swim ladders down or ladders up to deck or cockpit are shown in the photos. After modifying my original aft boarding ladder, I finally removed it when adding a Monitor Wind Vane. We now use the framework of the Monitor as our steps up and down after adding aggressive non-skid tape to the Monitor's frame to prevent any accidental slips.

Heart of Oak shows tight spacing between the teak which would restrict water flow.
[remember you can click on any photo to make it larger]

Soggypaws (on right)uses only the starboard half of his platform to mimimalize the forces of wave slap.

Whatever was unhappy with the lack of ability for water to pass through. I too noticed a pronounced pounding when anchored in a chop, so modified mine this summer to include slots and left a 3" separation between the

Windhover's Swim platform, Monitor Windvane and davits shown at left

starboard and stern to lessen the effect of waves. The photo below, shows my honey doing the final wash to it before reinstalling.

Memory Rose's Drainage Slots -After.............................................None Before

Hard Tops/Bimini's and Dodgers

2006-10-29T21:02:00.002-05:00

Only a few of the brave souls owning CSY center cockpit vessels have ventured into the unknown and attempted hard tops, hard dodgers or hard enclosures. There is 'much' to the task.

SV Magic Kingdom, owned by Ernest Kraus, had started the project above, on his WO last year.
Dave McCampbell is now making the aluminum one below. See lots more of his work at:
http://www.svsoggypaws.com/deck.htm#dodger

Below this, are photos of the Walk Over DouDou, which sports a custom enclosure of the cockpit. An example of an extensive modification, that is not a CSY Pilothouse but seems to be something some sailors might be interested in. The vessel is for sale through YachtWorld.com)

Return to 44' CSY Yachts With Pilot House

Continue to Full Specs

Aesthetic lines used in the design are shown above and below. For those of you that remember the famous "Gull Wing" sports cars with upward opening doors, this trick was used here but I do not see a water proof seal. The top is a good structure for solar panels.

Peter Rabbit's top, is shown below, during construction.

All involved endless hours of forethought in design and construction. Certainly worth mentioning such ambitious tasks. It seems Magic Kingdom is plywood. Peter Rabbit is a fiberglass section over an aluminum welded framework, as is the custom/commercially built bimini of Jim Dill shown below.

Chilli Pepper, Marathon Fl. .................................................owned by Jim Dill. Beyond that is a composit: half commercial built and half owner built, that is being finished now by Dave McCampbell. Dave designed his framework then shopped for a builder. Now he is finishing off the top and sides on his own. Be sure to check out his efforts at http://www.svsoggypaws.com

I believe that looking around the marinas also pays benefits. Pacifico's hard top was built by a past owner and seems to work just fine.
--A Morgan, Out Island 41 was also found in the same harbor tied to a dock, maybe forever, but it had a significant bowsprit and a very well thought out HARD DODGER. think of what you need and build it!

Pacifico, on left.

Morgan OI, 41' with an attractive hard dodger binimi combo, Roatan Honduras. Functional yet with style.

Kalua Cup Decal

2006-10-16T17:20:00.001-05:00

OK, the decals are in. These are SECONDS!...as suggested by Craig Owings(but I never caught his humorous comment, but actually correct) [He has one of the 2 original ones left-and without his gift to Steve, WE would not have ANY,,,,,seconds!!]

They were digitally improved a bit, then printed on High Performance vinyl, clear laminated for further protection and in four colors; Burgundy outer ring, Cream center then black and white, cut round at 3.75 inches.

Most folks raised their hands for 2-3, some a half dozen. Some price break for volume until there gone. (I do not intend to reorder, still hope to go sailing!)

2 for $5.
6 for $10. (This includes envelope and postage)
$1 each beyond 6 (if in on original order/same envelope), while quantity lasts.

Honor System applies. As soon as you email your mailing address to me, I will get them out. Send a check to me only AFTER I confirm the number sent:

Ron Sheridan
3111 Passagrille Way, #213
St. Pete Beach, Fl. 33706

*About 5 years ago, CSY hats were an item made for us by a member. I bought a bakers dozen and give one to anyone that sails over 200 miles offshore with us. (Yes, I still have some:) I'm mentioning this, as these decals would serve well for less significant boat gifts.
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Scroll down 2 more posts to read CSY ad about this race........... "Cleopatra's Barge Wins Kahalua Cup"

Cutting a Keel: Deep to Shoal Draft

2006-10-13T19:35:00.003-05:00

CSY utilized a concept within their hull design, that allowed 2 models of Draft. On the 44' model the drafts were 6' 6" or 4' 11", deep or shoal. Similar differences were available for the 37 and 33. So, the 19" difference could either NOT be originally built in to the hull, by way of inserting a plug into the mold to take up the space, and then laying up the interior glass works, without the deepest section, or, cut it off sometime later.

Certainly there are fans of either shoal or deep drafts, but this modifiable keel gave CSY an edge on their competition. You could have your cake and eat it too, leasing your boat to the Caribbean Charter fleet as a deep draft and then if you required less keel to bring the boat home, you could cut it off. There are pros and cons as to the handling of a CSY as deep or shoal draft, initial and overall stability of either, leeway with the shoal keel as well as whether or not ballast was put in at the factory or added later to make up for the weight lost when 19" of keel was the cut off, or omitted from the building process.

I took these photos at Embree Marine, on Salt Creek, St. Petersburg, Florida, back in the very early 90's. At the time, the charge was between $3-3,500. for the modification. It seems the concept this yard used, and it was a yard that did many CSYs in the past, was to cut into the side of the keel at 3 places on each side and remove a small square of fiberglass about an inch deep. One block forward, one aft and one near center. This gave them a visual indication of where the fiberglass inner, "2nd bottom" was approximately. Then they marked a line around the keel and began to cut off the bottom section with a circular saw. I suppose they had to leave the hull slung in the Travel Lift and add jack stands to be somewhat stable and safe, but the keel drop should have separated without too much effort after the glass was cut.

Once the lower section was removed, grinding the rough cut somewhat, then fairing the seam, seems next. I cannot verify now if it was done by Embree, but if I were to do this, I would grind off some of the outer glass above the cut, and layer a good amount of new fabmat material over the seam and bottom using epoxy resins for the best bond, to effect a total cap on the project.

Finish off with some fairing and bottom paint.

*Note: I recently stopped by Embree Marine, 201-16th Ave. South, St. Petersburg, Fl. 33701 and spoke to the yard manager about this work. He said, Chad Shakespeare is the guy to talk to as he has knowledge of the prior jobs done by them. 727-896-0671.

Cleopatra's Barge Wins Kahlua Cup

2006-10-12T20:55:00.000-05:00

CSY wooped the pants off of a number of quality boats of the day, during several Florida races, one right after another! A decal was made to celebrate the win at the Kahlua Cup. There apears to be only 2 original decals left in the world. Craig Owings had the 2 and gave one to Steve Silverman, who lent his to me for duplication for all of us. Craig had mentioned winning and placing well in many races down in Panama and has a large number of awards due to the sailing ability of the CSY in robust conditions.

I'm putting one new decal on my coaming, right between my boarding gate stantions and certainly another on my car and have extras to give away as 'boat gifts' along the way and also to crew. It should initiate good conversation with any visitors and help spread the word of the Tampa Tub's abilities !

Besides humorous bragging rights, for anyone thinking of someday selling their boat, this might add positive thoughts, knowing the CSY cruiser has a bit of racing pedegree.... give one to your broker to add to his listing.

Note from the Editor: the Kahlua Cup is the yearly Ft. Lauderdale to Key West race. This race was, at that time, the feeder race for all the boats participating in the SORC racing circuit). I happened to be in this race in 1980 as crew in a traditional Morgan 41 center-boarder (designed after Charlie Morgan’s SORC winner “Paper Tiger”), not the Morgan Out Island ’41. Most of the crew was sick as soon as the race started. In order to race south against a northerly Gulfstream current, one had to stay close to the reef line, in less than 50 feet of water, before the age of Sat-Nav’s and GPS devices. You could hear the waves breaking on the reefs at night. One boat was lost, and several others badly-damaged on the reef during that race, which coincided with a front coming through. The famous sailboat “Ticonderoga”, with famous singer Jimmy Buffett as crew, made it safely to Key West, in time for some Margaritaville festivities.

The material below was scanned and OCR'ed from a CSY advertising flyer, published in 1980.

“What?

Cleopatra’s Barge,

the boat that can’t

sail out of its own wake,

that incredible hulk

the Tampa Tub, just won

the Kahlua Cup?”

We're not kidding ... but they thought we were when we first entered. She won First 0verall, First in Class and First in Division.

Who is she. this wonder craft? A 12-meter terror? A new, custom racer? No, she's an ordinary (well, not so ordinary) cruising yacht. The incredible CSY Mid-cockpit 44.

Yes, folks. That same “overbuilt icebreaker" took on a Custom Frers 46, a Swan 411, a Morgan 1-ton, a Tartan 37, a Valiant 40 and 34 others, and trounced the hell out of all of them.

Breezing along in the 20-30 knot winds, she hit speeds in excess of 12 knots and generally had a wonderful time. Her amateur crew (some factory workers and a dentist who'd never raced before) did everything they could to keep up appearances -like waving to the fanatics on the other yachts as they passed by -but it was no contest.

To the competition's chagrin. 60 of the 100 starters dropped out (in 25 knot winds???).

On to the finish.

When the race was done, and the full 161 miles (210 miles over the bottom) had been traversed, it was red faces in the sunset. World-beaters came across like egg-beaters, and a lot of old racing salts had their tails peppered by “the fat 44" and her less than glorious crew. Not that we intend to demean them, but there were so many award winners in the race sailing so many “go-fast" boats ... ah, well, ours is not to reason why ... but it happened.

Victory was particularly sweet for the winning 44, a standard CSY cutter, with optional tall rig, and performance package. She sailed across the finish line on the same hull on which the Pilot House Ketch and new walk-through are built, with the same handsome interior, enormous sea-going kitchen and live-aboard luxuries that are found on all CSY's. No stripped-down racing version this, just a good ‘ole cruising boat with a lot of heart.

After she won it, there was a certain air of gloom as the mighty meekly moped back to port.

The award ceremony was low key - somehow the competition never got into the spirit of things. Wonder why?

And you probably won't be reading a whole lot about CSY's victory in the papers. For some reason the hot shots who delight in taking pot shots have been strangely silent. And it's about time.

Old myths (like"heavy" won't sail) die hard.

Gloat? Us? Well, maybe just a little. After all, we've been taking a lot of crap about our weight for a lot of years.

Was it a fluke? Well, two weeks later, the same CSY 44, with the same motley crew, (and a spinnaker this time), won the 121-mile St. Pete-to Naples race, taking First Overall and First in Class.

So now, if you please, we'll just bask in our glory for a while.

Anybody out there want to cruise?

For more information, and a decal commemorating this momentous event, write or call CSY, P.O. Box 13507, 5250 West Tyson Ave., Tampa, FL 33681. Or call toll free (800) 237-2565. In Florida, call (813) 839-5357.

Cutwater Fitting

2006-09-30T20:47:00.001-05:00

Cutwater fittings are normally used for attaching the bobstay from the tip of the underside of the bowsprit, back down to the stem of the boat, near the waterline. Back in 1994, I had a local shop build one for me out of 3/8" stainless steel. Two 3/4" holes were drilled in the front, the upper one for the upcoming bobstay(which actually did not get produced for another 6 years), and the lower hole was for an anchor snubber line. Originally, the word was that CSY's chain plates were strong enough that the boat could be lifted by just one; they were 'that' strong. The same concept was used here, but I used 8 countersunk Flat head 1/2" bolts, and added significant backing plates inside.
..... Overkill, trustworthy and yet simple to install. After having mine built, I got a request from the owner of Finesse, a WT 44 for a copy, so another was made.

Other CSY owners have copied this design with a tweak or two to fit their mindsets. A modified version shown here at right, is of Peter Rabbit's shortened "one holer" and using 6 hex head bolts.

Steve Silverman in Ft. Lauderdale now has my original Cutwater, shown in top left photo, to use as a template for making one for his boat, if anyone is interested, Steve is kinda in the business and might help if you want one.

The iguana photo shows the 'new' Cutwater on Memory Rose, made of heavier 1/2", 316 grade stainless but bead blasted, sealed in Pettit's epoxy primer and Interprotect 3000, then painted with anti fouling paint. This has worked out fine as well. (Note: If you wish to have stainless steel sitting in or near salt water, definitely have it electro plated, rather than just highly polished, as it will look better over time and be much less subject to crevis corrosion..period! )

The outer dish zinc was added to indicate any problems with electolosis going on, as all metal masses are bonded together. No problems evident. The separation between plates on my new design accomodates a large toggle; rather than together as in the earlier version which when plates are combined, accept a 3/4" shackle around the plates.

12 years of experiments/experience on this project and I'm still checkin' carefully.

Hose Solutions

2006-09-30T20:31:00.001-05:00

Heads, air conditioners, refrigeration pumps, fresh water pumps, washdown pumps etc. etc., can sometimes require a hose that performs a tight bend. Using 90 degree PVC or nylon elbows can sometimes be OK, but they have a tendency to restrict flow due to the sharp turn required for the fluid. Go to your local Auto Parts Retailer and ask to be allowed to browse thru their stock of small heater hoses! You will find an almost endless supply of all kinds of 'Full Flow' bends. I usually look for 5 or 6 hoses that have at least 2 bends that I need on the same hose. Bring them to the counter and price them. The parts for some car models cost more than others so buy the cheapest ones that fit your needs. Shown here is a 90 deg. hose section, cut from a larger multi-bend hose. It fit my modification perfectly and I saved the other unused bends in my spares locker. These radiator hoses are made from top quality material and are reinforced.

Ventilation and Moisture Control

2006-09-16T08:34:00.002-05:00

Years ago, I found myself scrubbing the inside of my last boat every month or two because of mildew growth. The heavy dose of Clorox fumes would soon lead me to ask questions as to how others were dealing with this problem aboard. Ventilation seemed to be the answer, but in cold or inclement weather, how do you get airflow? I soon learned.

Mushroom style vents come in 3" and 4" sizes and then, you can opt for solar powered ones for daytime use or with battery backup for 24 hour duty. Of course I had to learn again, that you get what you pay for. The third set I bought were the Stainless Steel mushroom, 4" solar/battery operated models. One vent in the hatch of the forward head and one in an aft hatch, help. I found screens for the head ports so that I may leave those open as well. Now, we only had to deal with a Clorox wipe down every 6 months.

Knee surgery a few years ago, granted me some down time. Well, down in a beach chair in my garage, but not down and out! Four 4" Stainless Steel Dorades had been collecting dust for a decade until I took this opportunity to work some 5 quarter (1.25")teak boards into 4 nice Dorade boxes for Memory Rose. The process was simple and fun and progress swift. My local fabricator made some special parts to allow me to attach or detach them from the boat with one 1/2" Pan socket bolt.

Aluminum 4" pipe was threaded on one end to accept a screw in plug for weatherproofing and two ear tabs added on the sides for attachment to the top of the coach roof and pilothouse.
When installed, we were delighted at the increased air flow. Some of our boat is insulated, but not all. It helps, but having the constant flow of fresh air inside has basically negated the need for Clorox washes again. We still clean inside, but no longer because of trapped humidity. Note however, that we have not had much weather here in Florida that requires heat! We do have temps in the 40's at times during the winter and we do get condensation from us living aboard while cruising. At those times, we find the overhead is dripping with moisture from our breathing while sleeping, so before morning coffee, we wipe dry all moist surfaces in sight.

I should mention that dockside, our 16,000 BTU reverse cycle, heat/air unit has a moisture control setting which we have never needed to use. Condensation from its condenser is drained into a sump box along with head sink and shower water and pumped overboard. Also, I should mention that twenty years ago while living aboard my Morgan Out Island 41 in New York winters, I used 2 of the oil filled electric radiators, one forward, one aft, set at 600 or at most 900 watts(never needed the 1500 watt setting). The boat was always comfortable and I bet half the homes on Long Island had at least 'One' of them operating in some room. The nice attribute of that style is that their is no noise at all because there is no fan. The element heats up inside a bath of oil. Steady even temps and no noise at all.

Another area often not considered, but easy to address, is moisture within your refrigeration or freezer boxes which will cause frost on Holding Plates. Try using a small container of Damp-Rid granules in the bottom of the box, to draw out the airborne moisture. This will reduce, but not stop, frost buildup.

However, if you want to be rid of all mold and mildew, fix any leaks on deck, add ventilation, and move the boat to a desert cruising area, like Lake Powell.

Stay well and keep smiling!