Friday, December 04, 2009
Thursday, December 03, 2009
"Time is Money well spent tinkering with boats" reprinted first post of, 9/12/2006!
Today, riding up the elevator to our 2nd floor abode, after working on project #1342 +/-, I jokingly asked Dorothy, my honey, partner in life and assistant on boat projects, how many hours did she think we already had into it? The elevator opened before she answered and as we emerged back into sunlight she gave me a funny look that said, "LOT'S of time"!
My desire to add a few antiques to our interior, in particular a Victorian mirror in our aft head, instead of the CSY rectangular teak framed one that had served perfectly for 25 years, had led us into this project. Searching for the right mirror alo
ne, took several years of poking around antique shops and thrift stores and many long drives. After removing the original mirror, old holes showed next to the new Victorian mirror, so of course this had to be remedied. An adjacent Formica panel had holes in it too from prior owners additions and deletions as well as removal of the old shower assembly, so heck, I'll Formica all of it. Might just as well redo the small 2 panels above the mirror too! Locating the 'right' color of Formica from a distributor took more time, then picking up the sheets, glue, a few extra brushes, removing trim teak, faucet, making patterns, cutting and fitting Formica to perfection, taping everything we did not want glue on and cleaning up, gluing and installing the new Formica. Count also the hours of sanding, re varnishing and reinstalling teak trim, faucet etc..
What brought on my question of 'Time', was a conversation I had 21 years ago aboard my first sailboat. A gent I had hired to help me get her commissioned was enlightening me. I knew zip about sailboats then and had been 15 years out of ownership of a power boat. So having him around for a day or 2 was comforting, usually. He made a comment though that I will never forget, apparently, and that is what precipitated the question to my gal. He told me he often has customers that want him to do this or that yet have no idea how much time is involved to accomplish the task. He has learned to estimate fairly well, but the customer rarely understood his labor estimate or at least grimaced when hearing it. He pointed up to one of my hatches and said, "For instance, if that hatch was leaking and I were to do it properly, I could possibly spend 20 hours before finished." I laughed and said OK, looking at the hatch and the conversation went on. A few years later, I would still occasionally look up at that hatch and think of what he said, and understanding his estimate better, now that I have had a few years under my belt in boat maintenance again. The old boat now belongs to another and for 15 years I have been owner and loving slave to my second; "Memory Rose" a CSY 44' Pilothouse Ketch. Now, my ability to estimate is quite good; so much so, I make sure I do not!
Why? Well because if I make my best estimate and then double it, I am usually close, but probably still on the shy side. If I knew that estimate going into each project I probably would talk myself out of it, or Dorothy would suggest that maybe I had other things to do as well. She would be right, but I seem to gravitate to boat work, so I continue to do it.
The point of this is that whether one is a prospective first time buyer or an old salt, the estimate of time necessary to properly do a job aboard is not usually considered accurately. That hatch resealing task that my hired hand suggested would have cost me 20 hours times @ whatever the labor rate would be. Then, in 1985, his rate was $25/hr. so to reseal that one hatch would have cost me $500 + some materials. Ouch! And what if a few hatches were leaking and a few port lights? Or, if the project didn't go perfectly and other things had to be done. How much would that job cost today? I recently had to get estimates for electronic work and the rate was $90/hr.. Double Ouch! Costs can run up quickly even for a job like a reseal that is totally invisible when completed and done well. You don't even get the pleasure of looking at some new item aboard, but you still have to pay for progress with your time, or your dollars for someone else's time.
So, when looking at your boat, your next boat, or another sailors vessel, take time to really look. Study what has been done. Think of the effort put forward to accomplish projects done, to truly appreciate what you are seeing. Also, digest what it might cost you to do the same thing. Doing so will help all of us better appreciate the work that has come from builders originally, or from someone along the way to repair or modify a vessel. It will surely help when trying to understand why one boat sells for $45,000. and another for $145,000. In truth, there might be $200,000 in time or dollars put into the better one, or needed to bring the lesser one up to comfortable, seaworthy condition. Asking or sales prices often do not parallel real costs or efforts. Important too, is noticing the things that are 'not' done. Adding the hours and dollars necessary to tackle that which has not yet been done, can be sobering. Doing so however, can save you from spending a fortune in time or effort, yet ending up selling your boat years later, half finished and no longer enjoyed. Properly executed work, be it maintenance, rebuilds, refinements or engineering, can bring many rewards for those with ambition, time, patience and a reasonable output of cash. Call it sweat equity, call it a hobby; the payoff is daily pleasure and
pride of work well done, a safer, trusted vessel and rewards when swallowing the anchor.
In our case, the mirror job will cost us a few hundred bucks and many hours of input, the vast majority of which was fun. The money spent is gone, but the finished product will bring a smile to us for years to come. Wishing you the same outcome on your next project.
Stay well and keep smiling.
My desire to add a few antiques to our interior, in particular a Victorian mirror in our aft head, instead of the CSY rectangular teak framed one that had served perfectly for 25 years, had led us into this project. Searching for the right mirror alo
ne, took several years of poking around antique shops and thrift stores and many long drives. After removing the original mirror, old holes showed next to the new Victorian mirror, so of course this had to be remedied. An adjacent Formica panel had holes in it too from prior owners additions and deletions as well as removal of the old shower assembly, so heck, I'll Formica all of it. Might just as well redo the small 2 panels above the mirror too! Locating the 'right' color of Formica from a distributor took more time, then picking up the sheets, glue, a few extra brushes, removing trim teak, faucet, making patterns, cutting and fitting Formica to perfection, taping everything we did not want glue on and cleaning up, gluing and installing the new Formica. Count also the hours of sanding, re varnishing and reinstalling teak trim, faucet etc..What brought on my question of 'Time', was a conversation I had 21 years ago aboard my first sailboat. A gent I had hired to help me get her commissioned was enlightening me. I knew zip about sailboats then and had been 15 years out of ownership of a power boat. So having him around for a day or 2 was comforting, usually. He made a comment though that I will never forget, apparently, and that is what precipitated the question to my gal. He told me he often has customers that want him to do this or that yet have no idea how much time is involved to accomplish the task. He has learned to estimate fairly well, but the customer rarely understood his labor estimate or at least grimaced when hearing it. He pointed up to one of my hatches and said, "For instance, if that hatch was leaking and I were to do it properly, I could possibly spend 20 hours before finished." I laughed and said OK, looking at the hatch and the conversation went on. A few years later, I would still occasionally look up at that hatch and think of what he said, and understanding his estimate better, now that I have had a few years under my belt in boat maintenance again. The old boat now belongs to another and for 15 years I have been owner and loving slave to my second; "Memory Rose" a CSY 44' Pilothouse Ketch. Now, my ability to estimate is quite good; so much so, I make sure I do not!
Why? Well because if I make my best estimate and then double it, I am usually close, but probably still on the shy side. If I knew that estimate going into each project I probably would talk myself out of it, or Dorothy would suggest that maybe I had other things to do as well. She would be right, but I seem to gravitate to boat work, so I continue to do it.
The point of this is that whether one is a prospective first time buyer or an old salt, the estimate of time necessary to properly do a job aboard is not usually considered accurately. That hatch resealing task that my hired hand suggested would have cost me 20 hours times @ whatever the labor rate would be. Then, in 1985, his rate was $25/hr. so to reseal that one hatch would have cost me $500 + some materials. Ouch! And what if a few hatches were leaking and a few port lights? Or, if the project didn't go perfectly and other things had to be done. How much would that job cost today? I recently had to get estimates for electronic work and the rate was $90/hr.. Double Ouch! Costs can run up quickly even for a job like a reseal that is totally invisible when completed and done well. You don't even get the pleasure of looking at some new item aboard, but you still have to pay for progress with your time, or your dollars for someone else's time.
So, when looking at your boat, your next boat, or another sailors vessel, take time to really look. Study what has been done. Think of the effort put forward to accomplish projects done, to truly appreciate what you are seeing. Also, digest what it might cost you to do the same thing. Doing so will help all of us better appreciate the work that has come from builders originally, or from someone along the way to repair or modify a vessel. It will surely help when trying to understand why one boat sells for $45,000. and another for $145,000. In truth, there might be $200,000 in time or dollars put into the better one, or needed to bring the lesser one up to comfortable, seaworthy condition. Asking or sales prices often do not parallel real costs or efforts. Important too, is noticing the things that are 'not' done. Adding the hours and dollars necessary to tackle that which has not yet been done, can be sobering. Doing so however, can save you from spending a fortune in time or effort, yet ending up selling your boat years later, half finished and no longer enjoyed. Properly executed work, be it maintenance, rebuilds, refinements or engineering, can bring many rewards for those with ambition, time, patience and a reasonable output of cash. Call it sweat equity, call it a hobby; the payoff is daily pleasure and
pride of work well done, a safer, trusted vessel and rewards when swallowing the anchor.In our case, the mirror job will cost us a few hundred bucks and many hours of input, the vast majority of which was fun. The money spent is gone, but the finished product will bring a smile to us for years to come. Wishing you the same outcome on your next project.
Stay well and keep smiling.
Friday, November 06, 2009
CSY Links, Marine Businesses worth noting.
In 2000, I switched from one fabulous stainless steel fabricator to another one because of price and timeliness. I have never regretted that and alerted the CSY group and other friends of my new recommendation of stainless steel fabricator and machinist.
The name is Gulfport Industrial Repair, Gulfport, Fl. (aka Gulfport Machine) owned and operated by Rick Heim. 727-328-2346 He will fabricate works of art and ship to you if necessary, items small or large. (note; Rick is plenty busy without a website so this is the only contact info I can offer)
A few years later, my wife and I put on a 'CSY Gam' three day event for the CSY Group of boat owners, here in St. Pete Beach, Fl. We were lucky to have as a guest, Pat Petersen of Petersen Marine(and also a long ago employee of Caribbean Sailing Yachts (CSY)). Pat was a super guest and sponsor offering a $2000. door prize of a marine air conditioning system and further offered special deals to the group. He proved to be a 'good-guy' by following through with all his offerings to everyone, so I added a justly deserved link to his business: Petersen Marine
NOTE: His website is lacking but his service is not! He will ship anywhere. SEE: LINKS on right side of page.
Today, I'm adding another Marine Business to my "LINKS" (also on the right side of the page.)
The new entry is: "Custom Teak Marine Woodwork", St. Petersburg, Fl. owned by Steve Shuler. His quality, service and timeliness put him on my list. You will not be disappointed if you use his service, so check out his website. He will also ship anywhere. Like the others, either retain the link for yourselves or... remember where you found it! :)
For direct access, Click on the LINK, down a bit, on the Right Side of this page!
The name is Gulfport Industrial Repair, Gulfport, Fl. (aka Gulfport Machine) owned and operated by Rick Heim. 727-328-2346 He will fabricate works of art and ship to you if necessary, items small or large. (note; Rick is plenty busy without a website so this is the only contact info I can offer)
A few years later, my wife and I put on a 'CSY Gam' three day event for the CSY Group of boat owners, here in St. Pete Beach, Fl. We were lucky to have as a guest, Pat Petersen of Petersen Marine(and also a long ago employee of Caribbean Sailing Yachts (CSY)). Pat was a super guest and sponsor offering a $2000. door prize of a marine air conditioning system and further offered special deals to the group. He proved to be a 'good-guy' by following through with all his offerings to everyone, so I added a justly deserved link to his business: Petersen Marine
NOTE: His website is lacking but his service is not! He will ship anywhere. SEE: LINKS on right side of page.
Today, I'm adding another Marine Business to my "LINKS" (also on the right side of the page.)
The new entry is: "Custom Teak Marine Woodwork", St. Petersburg, Fl. owned by Steve Shuler. His quality, service and timeliness put him on my list. You will not be disappointed if you use his service, so check out his website. He will also ship anywhere. Like the others, either retain the link for yourselves or... remember where you found it! :)
For direct access, Click on the LINK, down a bit, on the Right Side of this page!
Monday, June 29, 2009
N.A. Frank Hamlin, sailing North on CSY Pilothouse #1
Pilothouse #1 sailed north to the January 1978 Boat show at the Colosseum in NYC, in company of a cutter rig. The interior of the Pilothouse woodwork was completed along the way by finish carpenters aboard.
This photo was the Cover of Chart pack/Florida East Coast/1980. Frank Hamlin, Naval Architect and architect of at least part of pilothouse project, is at the helm.
(orig. posting, 6/29/08)
Saturday, June 06, 2009
CSY Owners of 44', 37' and 33' boats built from 76-83
Twice per year, I move this Post forward. If not, as you can expect, things get lost in history..
So now 6 months have passed and you get an update! How Cool! :)
.........If you own a CSY built from, you are offered a place to post pictures and write ups about your boat, "right here."
It's a great way for all of us to get to know each other and spend some time, similar in a way to being in a harbor and get to meet up for an evening or two. Here tho, we can reread and view, what we can not remember the morning after :)
Send a photo of your boat, yourselves or a couple of your "Happy Projects" and let's see what we have.
Nearly 3 years now and all is running well/Quality!
My hopes are to place ANY CSY BOATS CURRENTLY OUT THERE WITH OWNERS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET and interested.... a place to show their vessel and it's condition, problems, improvements or ? This is available now, right here. So, what are you waiting for?
Ready to show off your vessel?
Here is your opportunity. Just Email your initial write-up and photo attachments to: s.v.memoryrose@gmail.com
With just a few emails, you can have your boat up on the web, showing off your proudest projects.
Stay well and keep smiling,
ron sheridan
So now 6 months have passed and you get an update! How Cool! :)
.........If you own a CSY built from, you are offered a place to post pictures and write ups about your boat, "right here."
It's a great way for all of us to get to know each other and spend some time, similar in a way to being in a harbor and get to meet up for an evening or two. Here tho, we can reread and view, what we can not remember the morning after :)
Send a photo of your boat, yourselves or a couple of your "Happy Projects" and let's see what we have.
Nearly 3 years now and all is running well/Quality!
My hopes are to place ANY CSY BOATS CURRENTLY OUT THERE WITH OWNERS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET and interested.... a place to show their vessel and it's condition, problems, improvements or ? This is available now, right here. So, what are you waiting for?
Ready to show off your vessel?
Here is your opportunity. Just Email your initial write-up and photo attachments to: s.v.memoryrose@gmail.com
With just a few emails, you can have your boat up on the web, showing off your proudest projects.
Stay well and keep smiling,
ron sheridan
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Antiqua Fire
Two nights ago, a friend of mine lost his Antiqua 44' to what appears to have been an electrical fire.
Remember to click on any photo to enlarge it.
Around midnight I was checking our condo for an electrical problem as I could smell the burned material, when I heard the fire engines. His boat, was docked 1/4 mile UPWIND from us.
The Antigua has been undergoing renewal/replacement of electrical wiring by a professional, hired to clear up issues of original and added wiring. Not certain of the actual details, but as of today, it looks like the boat is going to be a total loss.
It does not appear to be "the" issue, but I had written to all our friends on the CSY discussion list awhile back, that there had been an electrical fire on a Bottom Liner CSY,caused by a worn out/overheated male Hubbel connector (mounted into the deck mold of a CSY) and advised all to check out their device. I've been monitoring this connection on my boat more often since The Bottom liner fire. Two weeks ago I found a good deal on Hubbel connectors online. It's packed, ready to replace mine when we return to Panama next month.
Subtle warnings from your own subconscious mind when looking at some mass of wiring aboard your vessel or, a wake up call like these pictures and text hopefully will help to keep us from being complacent about electrical wiring, sizing, connections mounting, etc.. Like everything else aboard, wiring needs to be on the list of maintanance issues. It's a good idea to check on some regular set schedule as well as anytime you are working on or around them. Also, a no brainer is to shut off all systems not necessary...especially if any work is not completed.
My friend is OK, his attitude is good. He even said with some humor in his voice, "The adjuster asked, is there any boat out there you would consider as a replacement?" He said; "Yes, but it's in Panama".
... Then not joking with me, he said, "If you hear of any good WT 44' CSY's out there for sale, let me know".
A dad day for any and all that see this and certainly for my friend, but we can all learn something from this or at least be reminded.
Remember to click on any photo to enlarge it.
Around midnight I was checking our condo for an electrical problem as I could smell the burned material, when I heard the fire engines. His boat, was docked 1/4 mile UPWIND from us.
The Antigua has been undergoing renewal/replacement of electrical wiring by a professional, hired to clear up issues of original and added wiring. Not certain of the actual details, but as of today, it looks like the boat is going to be a total loss.
It does not appear to be "the" issue, but I had written to all our friends on the CSY discussion list awhile back, that there had been an electrical fire on a Bottom Liner CSY,caused by a worn out/overheated male Hubbel connector (mounted into the deck mold of a CSY) and advised all to check out their device. I've been monitoring this connection on my boat more often since The Bottom liner fire. Two weeks ago I found a good deal on Hubbel connectors online. It's packed, ready to replace mine when we return to Panama next month.
Subtle warnings from your own subconscious mind when looking at some mass of wiring aboard your vessel or, a wake up call like these pictures and text hopefully will help to keep us from being complacent about electrical wiring, sizing, connections mounting, etc.. Like everything else aboard, wiring needs to be on the list of maintanance issues. It's a good idea to check on some regular set schedule as well as anytime you are working on or around them. Also, a no brainer is to shut off all systems not necessary...especially if any work is not completed.
My friend is OK, his attitude is good. He even said with some humor in his voice, "The adjuster asked, is there any boat out there you would consider as a replacement?" He said; "Yes, but it's in Panama".
... Then not joking with me, he said, "If you hear of any good WT 44' CSY's out there for sale, let me know".
A dad day for any and all that see this and certainly for my friend, but we can all learn something from this or at least be reminded.
Thursday, May 07, 2009
Cap Rail Replacement, "GLORY" of Christiansted, CSY 37
Here are some photos of the "replace the external teak" job I've started. They were taken at the November 2008 Virgin Islands Charteryacht League Boat Show at the new Yacht Haven Grande Marina in St. Thomas.
The work completed at that time was just the cap rail from the forward gate on starboard, around the stern to the forward gate on port. Since then, the companionway, eyebrows, boom gallows and hand rails have been finished. Yet to go is the cap rail from the forward gates to the bow, both sides, as well as the 2" high pieces under the cap rail itself.
Because the material expands and contracts longitudinally about 1/4" in 8' with a 40 degree temperature change...I don't seem to have much of a problem down here!!!, I did not do any fancy scarf joints. Simple butts. The bronze is 1/2" half-round from Lewis Marine in Ft. Lauderdale.
Just had the boat re-surveyed last week, and the surveyor is quite excited about the material and how it looks. The boat is valued now more than ever!
The material came from PlasTeak in Ohio. Cost $65/length there, and with trucking to Jacksonville, ocean freight to St. Croix and trucking delivery to my marina, bumped each length to $100 each. Each of the 11 pieces are lumber dimension 1"x10"x12'. Made of recycled plastic gallon water/milk jugs, treated with uv inhibitors and "teak" color added, of course. The oldest pieces are now two years installed....and never been cleaned. The only thing I do to any of it, is look!
The material works like wood, and wood tools are the deal. Band saw, table saw, sanders, drills, routers etc. I sanded the "grain" into the finished pieces just before installation with 80 grit on a belt sander, except by hand where the routing was done.
Try them at www.plasteak.com. The guy I worked with was owner, Derek Gribble. He was a good help with questions.
Years ago I'd installed teak foot pads/steps on the rub rail on either side by the after gates as the original gel coat, then the Awlgrip, was slippery under foot, certainly when wet, and really because I have big feet and they don't fit on the rub rail well! So I made new steps in the PlasTeak, using a router to cut the "non-skids."
The fold down seat in photo 15 is for the windward helmsman to sit better on the lee side, a little more butt-room to sit on the rail while steering, so as to be able to see over the house with a clearer view of what's up ahead.
Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than sitting on the lee seat where you can't see squat. Mostly I did that for the old racing days, but they are handy anytime...especially if your arms are as long as mine!
Now, for the technical aspects of working with this material:
For sealant, I used Silicone Sealant. Nothing special other than Clear, which I thought would be less offensive cosmetically. I used the big tubes with the gun, ran several "lines" so I could spread the goo evenly with a putty knife fairly quickly, both on the fiberglass and the "wood" exclusive of the overhangs, hoping to avoid air spaces and general gaps. Since this stuff "moves" with temperature changes, I wanted to perhaps make more of a gasket to disallow water seepage below into cabinettes, etc. The strength of the joint is in the mechanical screw fastenings, not the sealant/adhesive, so you use more fastening than with real wood. Silicone has very nice adhesive qualities on metal-to-fiberglass, for instance. So do adhesives like 5200. Remember I wanted clear. But since not much sticks to this stuff, "adhesive" won't matter, so the guys that put 5200 on EVERYTHING will have to rethink with this.
Derek Gribble said that when screwing down the material, over-drill the pilot hole in the PlasTeak just a bit. Enough so that when you put the screw in place, it just "falls" thru the hole. When you finish cranking down with the screwdriver, back off the fastening 1/4 turn. Yes you want the piece to be set, but yes you also want the piece to be able to "move" with the temperature changes.
He recommended pan head first, then round or oval head fastenings. On pieces 3/4" thick, you can counter bore a bit more than half the thickness of the stock, and still have enough depth to set the bungs. The caprail and smaller pieces, like the eyebrows, are not structural. They are for looks. He suggested using tapered bungs...that they sell.... but that presented a problem to me. He said just hammer the mother home, slice off with a wood chisel in the time honored way and finish off. They'll never come out. The problem I mention is that the depth of the counter bore, what's left after the fastening is set home, isn't terribly deep. I felt that with the tapered bung, it might not drive in deep enough to really squeeze in and set. And while all holes and counter bores were drilled on a drill press with depth stops for the counter bores, I was't ABOUT to start custom cutting each bung!!! There are HUNDREDS of them in this job! So I cut my own with either a half inch, or three-eighths plug cutter, depending on the application, again on the drill press. In the caprail case, 1/2" Remember this HDPE stuff doesn't hold glue well. Neither paint...nor varnish. So drilling the counter bore 1/2" also will produce a hole for a bung that will slide in nicely...and also slide out! I experimented on scrap, drilling 1/64" undersize holes and wanged the bungs home. They were snug, "reluctant" to come out. I tried another series 1/32 undersize. They didn't want to KNOW about coming out! I have a set of titanium bits in 64ths, ranging from the thickness of a hair on up to 1/2". When I drilled the bungs in scrap, I drilled down deep enough so that the ...what would later become the bottom of the bung....was rounded. That roundness allowed the bung to enter the slightly undersized hole, and be tapped, not really pounded, in.
In the eyebrow pieces....not shown in those pictures...they were not installed yet...the brows are closer to 5/8" x 3/4" or so. There really wasn't enough depth to be able to use pan or round headed fastenings. So I used counter sunk wood screws. You have to be really careful here to again back off the fastening a bit to allow movement. And the counter bore should only be 1/64 undersize, because the outward pressure of the bung in the 1/32 undersize hole is too much....the material doesn't have enough mass behind it....and cracks will develop. I have this happening in a few spots and need to re-make the pieces. I'm still learning the material. The learning curve isn't really steep, but it's there. Derek didn't mention that, but then I only told him I was replacing the caprail, the pieces being between 5 1/2 and 8" wide.
He has told me now though that 3M now makes a glue that works for HDPE. That might help setting bungs in flimsy pieces without needing to undersize the counterbore. Havn't tried that yet.
David Kummerle
The work completed at that time was just the cap rail from the forward gate on starboard, around the stern to the forward gate on port. Since then, the companionway, eyebrows, boom gallows and hand rails have been finished. Yet to go is the cap rail from the forward gates to the bow, both sides, as well as the 2" high pieces under the cap rail itself.
Because the material expands and contracts longitudinally about 1/4" in 8' with a 40 degree temperature change...I don't seem to have much of a problem down here!!!, I did not do any fancy scarf joints. Simple butts. The bronze is 1/2" half-round from Lewis Marine in Ft. Lauderdale.
Just had the boat re-surveyed last week, and the surveyor is quite excited about the material and how it looks. The boat is valued now more than ever!
The material came from PlasTeak in Ohio. Cost $65/length there, and with trucking to Jacksonville, ocean freight to St. Croix and trucking delivery to my marina, bumped each length to $100 each. Each of the 11 pieces are lumber dimension 1"x10"x12'. Made of recycled plastic gallon water/milk jugs, treated with uv inhibitors and "teak" color added, of course. The oldest pieces are now two years installed....and never been cleaned. The only thing I do to any of it, is look!
The material works like wood, and wood tools are the deal. Band saw, table saw, sanders, drills, routers etc. I sanded the "grain" into the finished pieces just before installation with 80 grit on a belt sander, except by hand where the routing was done.
Try them at www.plasteak.com. The guy I worked with was owner, Derek Gribble. He was a good help with questions.
Years ago I'd installed teak foot pads/steps on the rub rail on either side by the after gates as the original gel coat, then the Awlgrip, was slippery under foot, certainly when wet, and really because I have big feet and they don't fit on the rub rail well! So I made new steps in the PlasTeak, using a router to cut the "non-skids."
The fold down seat in photo 15 is for the windward helmsman to sit better on the lee side, a little more butt-room to sit on the rail while steering, so as to be able to see over the house with a clearer view of what's up ahead.
Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than sitting on the lee seat where you can't see squat. Mostly I did that for the old racing days, but they are handy anytime...especially if your arms are as long as mine!
Now, for the technical aspects of working with this material:
For sealant, I used Silicone Sealant. Nothing special other than Clear, which I thought would be less offensive cosmetically. I used the big tubes with the gun, ran several "lines" so I could spread the goo evenly with a putty knife fairly quickly, both on the fiberglass and the "wood" exclusive of the overhangs, hoping to avoid air spaces and general gaps. Since this stuff "moves" with temperature changes, I wanted to perhaps make more of a gasket to disallow water seepage below into cabinettes, etc. The strength of the joint is in the mechanical screw fastenings, not the sealant/adhesive, so you use more fastening than with real wood. Silicone has very nice adhesive qualities on metal-to-fiberglass, for instance. So do adhesives like 5200. Remember I wanted clear. But since not much sticks to this stuff, "adhesive" won't matter, so the guys that put 5200 on EVERYTHING will have to rethink with this.
Derek Gribble said that when screwing down the material, over-drill the pilot hole in the PlasTeak just a bit. Enough so that when you put the screw in place, it just "falls" thru the hole. When you finish cranking down with the screwdriver, back off the fastening 1/4 turn. Yes you want the piece to be set, but yes you also want the piece to be able to "move" with the temperature changes.
He recommended pan head first, then round or oval head fastenings. On pieces 3/4" thick, you can counter bore a bit more than half the thickness of the stock, and still have enough depth to set the bungs. The caprail and smaller pieces, like the eyebrows, are not structural. They are for looks. He suggested using tapered bungs...that they sell.... but that presented a problem to me. He said just hammer the mother home, slice off with a wood chisel in the time honored way and finish off. They'll never come out. The problem I mention is that the depth of the counter bore, what's left after the fastening is set home, isn't terribly deep. I felt that with the tapered bung, it might not drive in deep enough to really squeeze in and set. And while all holes and counter bores were drilled on a drill press with depth stops for the counter bores, I was't ABOUT to start custom cutting each bung!!! There are HUNDREDS of them in this job! So I cut my own with either a half inch, or three-eighths plug cutter, depending on the application, again on the drill press. In the caprail case, 1/2" Remember this HDPE stuff doesn't hold glue well. Neither paint...nor varnish. So drilling the counter bore 1/2" also will produce a hole for a bung that will slide in nicely...and also slide out! I experimented on scrap, drilling 1/64" undersize holes and wanged the bungs home. They were snug, "reluctant" to come out. I tried another series 1/32 undersize. They didn't want to KNOW about coming out! I have a set of titanium bits in 64ths, ranging from the thickness of a hair on up to 1/2". When I drilled the bungs in scrap, I drilled down deep enough so that the ...what would later become the bottom of the bung....was rounded. That roundness allowed the bung to enter the slightly undersized hole, and be tapped, not really pounded, in.
In the eyebrow pieces....not shown in those pictures...they were not installed yet...the brows are closer to 5/8" x 3/4" or so. There really wasn't enough depth to be able to use pan or round headed fastenings. So I used counter sunk wood screws. You have to be really careful here to again back off the fastening a bit to allow movement. And the counter bore should only be 1/64 undersize, because the outward pressure of the bung in the 1/32 undersize hole is too much....the material doesn't have enough mass behind it....and cracks will develop. I have this happening in a few spots and need to re-make the pieces. I'm still learning the material. The learning curve isn't really steep, but it's there. Derek didn't mention that, but then I only told him I was replacing the caprail, the pieces being between 5 1/2 and 8" wide.
He has told me now though that 3M now makes a glue that works for HDPE. That might help setting bungs in flimsy pieces without needing to undersize the counterbore. Havn't tried that yet.
David Kummerle
Tuesday, April 28, 2009
Water Faucets
The original water faucets on CSY's were chrome plated heavy cast brass single hole units with spring loaded self closing valves. This feature has been loved by some, but not by all, as reflected by the replacement manufactures and models used over the years.
That said, the forced water saving feature on a sailboat was and is a great idea.
The name of the faucet company is Chicago Faucet, 1-847-803-5000(tech. support
hit #2). The faucet is a Cross Handled Single Hole unit, part #700 or
701 (and can be ordered with Hot or Cold handles if someone wants to replace their unit, or just order part #
826-X for the SELF CLOSING CARTRIDGE if that's all you need. The model #701 comes
with the Self Closing Cartrige included for a few bucks more.
On the company's website, there are some improved models of this faucet, using the same single hole base, but adding features. Handles/method of getting the water to flow, and flow rate have options. Instead of turning the Cross shaped handle you can opt for a push down button style or a single lever. Flow rate is 2.2 gpm max, for a wide pressure range, so is probably reasonably low for a boats 30-45 psi systems, but the company offers a .5 gpm rate for real water savings on one of their models.
That said, the forced water saving feature on a sailboat was and is a great idea.
The name of the faucet company is Chicago Faucet, 1-847-803-5000(tech. support
hit #2). The faucet is a Cross Handled Single Hole unit, part #700 or
701 (and can be ordered with Hot or Cold handles if someone wants to replace their unit, or just order part #
826-X for the SELF CLOSING CARTRIDGE if that's all you need. The model #701 comes
with the Self Closing Cartrige included for a few bucks more.
On the company's website, there are some improved models of this faucet, using the same single hole base, but adding features. Handles/method of getting the water to flow, and flow rate have options. Instead of turning the Cross shaped handle you can opt for a push down button style or a single lever. Flow rate is 2.2 gpm max, for a wide pressure range, so is probably reasonably low for a boats 30-45 psi systems, but the company offers a .5 gpm rate for real water savings on one of their models.
Friday, April 17, 2009
CSY@Topica.com
After Ten + years, the Original CSY@Topica.com forum, is being replaced.
There has always been a Link, off on the right side of this page, called CSY Discussion List and that list contains a TON of information, but for a few years has NOT BEEN RESEARCHABLE!! The originator of that list, Mr. Dave Covert, is now working to make this information available again.
Along with his efforts, a new site is being developed by Mr. Covert and the McCampbells that will offer many new things! There should be something happening, maybe in only days.
Stay well and keep smiling,
ron
There has always been a Link, off on the right side of this page, called CSY Discussion List and that list contains a TON of information, but for a few years has NOT BEEN RESEARCHABLE!! The originator of that list, Mr. Dave Covert, is now working to make this information available again.
Along with his efforts, a new site is being developed by Mr. Covert and the McCampbells that will offer many new things! There should be something happening, maybe in only days.
Stay well and keep smiling,
ron
Sunday, March 22, 2009
"JAZZ", a CSY 37' class act!
Peter and Jan Hibbard, have sent photos of their 37' CSY. The boat does not look 30 years old, does it! I've had lot's of querries for 37 photos and information and am glad that such fine quality material came in. Now others have something truly sharp to look at.
JAZZ leaving Titusville Florida for Bahamas "Abacos" in May of 2008.
Anchored in Green Turtle, Abacos May 2008. Trail boards refinished with Red Brightside and inlay with Gold Leaf enamel that is actually cement monument paint. All exterior bright work taken down to bare wood with heat gun and sander. Cleaned and bleached. 3 coats Natural Teak Cetol followed up with 3 coats of gloss Cetol. Hull cleaned with Awlgrip cleaner and followed up with Awlgrip polish.
Port interior - New foam cushions, navy marine vinyl piped in white. Sumbrella throw pillows. All bulkheads cleaned and then painted with white gloss Brightside. All interior woodwork above sole refinished with water based Varathane.
Saloon Forward from Companionway - braided rugs, various decor items like mirror, pictures added with Weems and Plath flower vase. Bulkheads white gloss Brightside and galley counter Formica prepared and painted with gloss Navy Brightside.
Captains Cabin Port Side Forward - Trimmed in blue and white decor, bulkheads white gloss Brightside and all trim water base Varathane.
Head Forward - Sole fiberglass sole coved in white Dri-Deck. Counter tiled and new faucet fixtures added
Galley Port Side Looking Aft - All counters and top of fridge refinished with Navy Brightside and all trim with water based Varathane.
Cockpit Looking Aft - Fiberglass floor covered with Dri-Deck. C Cushions (closed cell foam) custom made for seating. Throw pillows red and navy striped Sumbrella, Cockpit table refinished and striped with Navy Brightside with gloss white Brightside background. All exterior bright work in cockpit and around entire boat taken down to bare wood and refinished with 3 coats Natural Teak Cetol and then 3 coats Gloss Cetol.
JAZZ leaving Titusville Florida for Bahamas "Abacos" in May of 2008.
Anchored in Green Turtle, Abacos May 2008. Trail boards refinished with Red Brightside and inlay with Gold Leaf enamel that is actually cement monument paint. All exterior bright work taken down to bare wood with heat gun and sander. Cleaned and bleached. 3 coats Natural Teak Cetol followed up with 3 coats of gloss Cetol. Hull cleaned with Awlgrip cleaner and followed up with Awlgrip polish.
Port interior - New foam cushions, navy marine vinyl piped in white. Sumbrella throw pillows. All bulkheads cleaned and then painted with white gloss Brightside. All interior woodwork above sole refinished with water based Varathane.
Saloon Forward from Companionway - braided rugs, various decor items like mirror, pictures added with Weems and Plath flower vase. Bulkheads white gloss Brightside and galley counter Formica prepared and painted with gloss Navy Brightside.
Captains Cabin Port Side Forward - Trimmed in blue and white decor, bulkheads white gloss Brightside and all trim water base Varathane.
Head Forward - Sole fiberglass sole coved in white Dri-Deck. Counter tiled and new faucet fixtures added
Galley Port Side Looking Aft - All counters and top of fridge refinished with Navy Brightside and all trim with water based Varathane.
Cockpit Looking Aft - Fiberglass floor covered with Dri-Deck. C Cushions (closed cell foam) custom made for seating. Throw pillows red and navy striped Sumbrella, Cockpit table refinished and striped with Navy Brightside with gloss white Brightside background. All exterior bright work in cockpit and around entire boat taken down to bare wood and refinished with 3 coats Natural Teak Cetol and then 3 coats Gloss Cetol.
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